Thread: Engine Head Gasket?

White smoke is a sure sign of coolant in the cylinders, a lazy hard start after sitting for a while is a another good one. Most mechanics will be able to check for co2 in the coolant, you have those instruments as shown in the vids or tablets dropped in the coolant which change colour if co2 is present.

Have you checked your overflow lines for splits? These are generally made by Hose Pipe and Thong Factory Number 6 in Inner Mongolia and are known to have QC issues. Could be it pushes it out and can't draw back, some of the coolant bottles have the overflow drain near the front wheel so it's not always obvious where it's going. or the radiator cap could be stuffed as well. If the heater core is leaking turn the heater on and you should soon smell coolant.

Occasional bubbles are nothing to worry about, when they increase when you rev the engine be alarmed.

Garry

Must confess I haven't read all the thread...

If suggest head gasket also, failure between 2 of the cylinders thus no external leak.

Coolant will be escaping the water jacket and into the cylinders and being burnt off once running again.

The bigger question is what caused it in the first place. 76k KM's isn't what I'd consider a normal life span for a head gasket so something must have caused it to overheat.

I'd first look at the radiator, blocked/ restricted air flow? Big spotties in front? Grass seeds in between radiator fins? Other things to check would be badly set timing.

Hth,
Jon


Thx
Jon

Originally Posted by RayG

Here's their shop in Scoresby, that carry them... http://x3emotorsports.com/cart/produ...s.php?ProdId=4

Good find Ray. At $88 bucks, that would be worth buying. I'd imagine it would have to cost me $50 - $60 or more if I took it to a mechanic / radiator shop and have them do it. I'll pick one up though the week. I'm too miserable to pay them $15 bucks to post it across town, so I'll go there.

I also found this. http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/UNIVERSAL...T/291079825765

That might be a better option than hooking it up to the air compressor.

Originally Posted by ventureoverland

I'd first look at the radiator, blocked/ restricted air flow? Big spotties in front? Grass seeds in between radiator fins?

The radiator looks pristine, inside and out. We bought this, this time two years ago, to get the son off to Uni. When it had 45k on it. I gave it a flush and new coolant then. It never runs hot, the gauge sits right in mid range, even on those 40C days we had the other week.

Originally Posted by Garry 3

White smoke is a sure sign of coolant in the cylinders, a lazy hard start after sitting for a while is a another good one. <snip> or the radiator cap could be stuffed as well. If the heater core is leaking turn the heater on and you should soon smell coolant.

I put a new cap on it last service, when I first started chasing this. I've never seen white smoke, but its such a small leak, maybe a cup or two ever tank of juice.

Originally Posted by Machtool

It never runs hot, the gauge sits right in mid range, even on those 40C days we had the other week.

It is not very well known but what seems like all modern cars, the temperature gauge always sits in the middle no matter what the actual temperature, until it gets hot enough to do damage, then it starts to move up...

A mechanic friend of mine has been selling and installing these http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/ENGINE-WA...-/141167753567

And the cars he has installed them on are all the same, from models made in the 1990's to new ones, from around 50C to 100C the temperature gauge never moves from the middle position... But the unit he installs tells a different story as to the real engine temperature..

We surmised the manufacturers build their car temperature gauges this way so drivers do not get nervous when for example on a hot day in town driving the car temperature goes well over 90C, but it is normal...

Originally Posted by nearnexus

This will move any moisture in the cylinders around/atomise it and is much more likely to show up on the plugs when you pull them out.

I might have to hand in my man card. I keep next to no tools at home, every thing is at work. I'll get the bride to follow me over there this afternoon, and lock it in the shop, and have a crack at it Monday or Tuesday morning.

I did find some thing following some thing Roger said, this morning. I had a scrap of rubber hose in the van, so I changed the hose going to the recover tank. I pulled the tank out, its one of those blow moulded things. I noticed 3-4mm of this white talc looking goo on the bottom. Maybe calcium. It was quite hard, I had to put a hand full of cruched rock it it, stolen out of the drive way, and give it a good shake with soapy water to clean it out. The discharge goes straight down to the bottom, I doubt I'd be that lucky, that it was enough to stop it drawing back.

Buts its cooling down now, and its definetly drawing back from the recovery tank. It's dropped half an inch while I've been writing this.

Regards Phil.

Originally Posted by Machtool

Do we have any bush mechanic's in the place.

I was thinking this afternoon, (while I was mowing the lawns), who here is a mechanic. And I remembered John Ashburn from Country Vic. I just checked, he hasn't made a post since Oct 31st last year. He was hot to trot for a while. I meet him at Roger's 2nd Metrology visit.

Anyone heard from him? He hasn't fallen off the purch has he?

Regards Phil.

Hi Phil

Im not a mechanic but i do have a fair bit of head gasket experience. From your description and video the only 2 likely scenarios are the gasket blown from a cylinder to a water jacket (or a cracked head in a similar way, unlikely) or else airlocks in the cooling system.

If you are happy to drive to Scoresby, i am only another few minutes down the road and could perform a compression or leakdown test for you which will answer the question very quickly.

A lot of the smaller cars for the last 20 or so years have the cylinder head or heater core above the top of the radiator. In this case, they tend to have bleeder valves at the heater core/hose junction on the engine bay side of the firewall, and/or the thermostat housing and the radiator inlet port. With my Pug, they stipulate to top off the radiator with an extension filler about 6 inches high, and to open the bleeders till in turn till the continuously flow water. I don't bother with the extension tube but jack the front of the car about 10 inches to fill, then do the bleed routine and finally top off and seal before lowering the car. Uses a straight overflow tube without overflow tank, drops about a cup after each off, then retains level from there.

The bubbles in the radiator and not pulling from the expansion tank does sound like a head gasket but the best way to be sure is to get a CO2 dye test done on your coolant.
Any half way decent mechanic should be able to do one.
Using a special test set you use a detection dye in your coolant and it turns a certain colour (yellow from memory) if there is any CO2 present.
There's a bloke I've had do some work for me in Fawkner who's pretty honest, pm me if you would like his details (no affiliation just a happy customer).
Another possibility is a leaking inlet manifold but this will usually make the engine run like a Russian beetroot harvester.
Hope it turns out to be a loose hose clamp somewhere though.
Good luck.
Cheers,
Greg.

Phil, I have had a few experiences with these sort of issues, and have a suggestion or two which may be useful.
On a Subaru we used to have, we had a similar problem to yours and it was caused by a crack in the head from the water jacket to the exhaust port. There was no crack to the combustion chamber at all, the coolant was just going directly from the jacket to the exhaust. It was suggested that I use some stuff called "Seal - Up", this stuff, http://www.ebay.com.au/sch/i.html?_t...at=0&_from=R40 which was predominantly water glass or sodium silicate, and once treated the system was flushed out again and filled with the correct coolant. End of problem!
Another time my daughters Datsun 1600 had a leaking head gasket, which allowed a small stream of bubbles to exit via the radiator top tank when I removed the radiator cap. It had been losing water from the radiator at a fairly slow rate, - from memory about 2 litres after driving 50 km or so. On that occasion I just loosened each head bolt in turn (about 1/3 turn), and re-torqued it to the specified torque + 10%. I followed the proper tightening sequence, loosening and re-tensioning one bolt at a time, and after that was done I checked tappet clearances, and again had a win. That involved an old technology engine though, and some newer engines need new bolts/studs each pulldown, or may involve measuring bolt stretch to determine tension, so you may not be able to try that method if your engine is in that group.
The sodium silicate precipitates out and solidifies when exposed to the atmosphere, so it is important not to have exposed radiator tubes when you pour it in, as they will be blocked by the sodium silicate going off, but it is OK as long as the tube ends are under water. For the same reason it is recommended that the cooling system remain empty overnight if possible, once you have drained the sealing mixture out after the required run time, so that any silicate mix can harden fully before the system is flushed and refilled with the correct coolant. I should also add that I am only a bush mechanic with no formal training in the field, so any advice from me is worth only what you paid for it. Good luck,
Rob

Originally Posted by Machtool

I was thinking this afternoon, (while I was mowing the lawns), who here is a mechanic. And I remembered John Ashburn from Country Vic. I just checked, he hasn't made a post since Oct 31st last year. He was hot to trot for a while. I meet him at Roger's 2nd Metrology visit.

Anyone heard from him? He hasn't fallen off the purch has he?

Regards Phil.

I have wondered numerous times over the past couple of months what has happened. I sent him an unused traveling steady and would like to hear about the end result. Other than that he always had interesting things to say, even if he was not an expert on punctuation.

Dean

Originally Posted by Ropetangler

Phil, I have had a few experiences with these sort of issues, and have a suggestion or two which may be useful.
On a Subaru we used to have, we had a similar problem to yours and it was caused by a crack in the head from the water jacket to the exhaust port. There was no crack to the combustion chamber at all, the coolant was just going directly from the jacket to the exhaust. It was suggested that I use some stuff called "Seal - Up", this stuff, http://www.ebay.com.au/sch/i.html?_t...at=0&_from=R40 which was predominantly water glass or sodium silicate, and once treated the system was flushed out again and filled with the correct coolant. End of problem!
Another time my daughters Datsun 1600 had a leaking head gasket, which allowed a small stream of bubbles to exit via the radiator top tank when I removed the radiator cap. It had been losing water from the radiator at a fairly slow rate, - from memory about 2 litres after driving 50 km or so. On that occasion I just loosened each head bolt in turn (about 1/3 turn), and re-torqued it to the specified torque + 10%. I followed the proper tightening sequence, loosening and re-tensioning one bolt at a time, and after that was done I checked tappet clearances, and again had a win. That involved an old technology engine though, and some newer engines need new bolts/studs each pulldown, or may involve measuring bolt stretch to determine tension, so you may not be able to try that method if your engine is in that group.
The sodium silicate precipitates out and solidifies when exposed to the atmosphere, so it is important not to have exposed radiator tubes when you pour it in, as they will be blocked by the sodium silicate going off, but it is OK as long as the tube ends are under water. For the same reason it is recommended that the cooling system remain empty overnight if possible, once you have drained the sealing mixture out after the required run time, so that any silicate mix can harden fully before the system is flushed and refilled with the correct coolant. I should also add that I am only a bush mechanic with no formal training in the field, so any advice from me is worth only what you paid for it. Good luck,
Rob

I have used "Chem Weld" on 2 Falcons which each had over 400k on the clock. Fixed them both. Got it from Repco. About 10 bucks. Same stuff as "Seal-Up" I think. Little yellow can. Clean cooling system, chuck Chem weld in with fresh water, idle motor for set period with a cover (cardboard, sack) over part of the radiator to increase temperature somewhat, etc. etc.

Dean

If there is CO₂ then it has to do with the head and gasket.

What if there isn't?

At 76000km, I would be more suspicious of the plastic radiator tanks than the head ... unless there had been an incident of zero water and steam from the radiator.

Also have the radiator cap off and observe the coolant flow with the engine starting from cold ... it should be relatively cool and still until the temperature to open the thermostat ... and then the engine-heated coolant should start to flow around the system. I'd like to know the thermostat was opening correctly, for one thing.

Cheers,
Paul

Seems there's multiple repeat advice about getting a TK test done! Probably be cheaper to just to get it done at the local mechanics rather than purchase a kit.

Maybe a lisle funnel would be a worthy addition though if there's concern about air in the system. Fwiw, mitsubishi 2.4s I've found - and surprisingly in this day and age - have issues around 100k, usually oil burning though.