Thread: All in the eye of the beholder.

Originally Posted by Gerbilsquasher

Insurance companies run (ruin?) the world now....

Agree 100%. For a while now myself and my partner have treated state schools like compulsory child minding and the real learning starts at 3.30pm.

Kids were doing dangerous stuff in metalwork when I was in high school in the 80's- black powder cannons, Ninja stars, knives... the list goes on.

No doubt it's worse nowadays. Usual story, the scumbags can blame someone else for their behavior and there will be a safety net to catch them, while those kids who are genuinely interested in these trades (or even as a hobby) have to make other arrangements, or wait until they are old enough to buy their own toys.

Slightly OT, but I am bringing it back around. My high school closed its metalwork shop and sacked the teacher just before I started my elective project- a steam engine.

It might have had something to do with the scumbags making 'weapons' and a histrionic parent contacting the school.

Now that the OP has opened the floodgates on this group therapy session, I can find another major motivation for purchasing various machine tools- I never forgot how badly I wanted to build that steam engine. I haven't quite got there yet, but at least now the access to the 'metalwork room' is controlled by me, myself and I, and cannot be arbitrarily taken away.

I can only wholeheartedly agree with this sentiment. I also read your next post and ditto for that one as well. No wonder schools do not have these dangerous subjects anymore.

On another subject I am a registered firearms owner. If I talk to people at work etc about this subject they are usually totally misinformed about the ownership of firearms and have the opinion that anyone who owns such are maniacs. The power of the press which has managed to convince the mainstream population that most of firearms based crimes are caused by legal licensed firearms holders.

I see the same bias towards many aspects of society today. The real truth is something that does not get a look in anymore.

Dean

Originally Posted by Oldneweng

On another subject I am a registered firearms owner. If I talk to people at work etc about this subject they are usually totally misinformed about the ownership of firearms and have the opinion that anyone who owns such are maniacs. The power of the press which has managed to convince the mainstream population that most of firearms based crimes are caused by legal licensed firearms holders.

I see the same bias towards many aspects of society today. The real truth is something that does not get a look in anymore.

Dean

I also partake in target shooting.. haven't gone hunting for a long time, and then I'd probably only shoot an animal if I was hungry or they were being a nuisance. I also receive the same negative brainwashed reaction from a majority of persons I speak to regarding these sporting activities. 'Guns kill people'... 'why do you need a gun?'... 'intelligent people don't need guns'... blah blah blah blah blah.....

Every year, motor vehicles kill many hundreds more people than legally owned firearms, yet the media stigmatisation of legally owned firearms is many thousands times higher, and it is getting relatively easier to get a driver's licence than it was a decade ago.

Which just goes to show... many people are easily fooled.

My kids will grow up respecting devices which will potentially maim and kill them. My machine tools will teach them that you need to put a lot in, pay a lot of attention, otherwise things will go wrong with serious results. It's not like playing Halo or Medal of Honor on your Xbox, pressing reset and you get another three lives...

A few years ago I was sanding some Tas oak floorboards with my belt sander. Three year old boy was hanging around, who I told to not touch the sander because I had to leave the room to answer the telephone or something. Very soon came the sound of belt sander being operated briefly. I reenter the room, three year old boy is now white as a sheet, his eyes are like saucers, and there is a 4" wide graze over the top of his bare foot. I didn't need to say anything. Boy is now seven, watches me takes off rust with Metabo 5" grinder with cup brush and he wants a turn... but now he respects that I tell him he is too young, but I will show him how to do it when he's old enough.

I had him welding when he was four. This has shocked a few people, particularly some of my female friends. He had all the correct PPE, Speedglas helmet, my heavy welding jacket and my leather gauntlets which came up to armpits, and he could barely lift the mig gun. He made a few welds that looked like the usual cocky guano, and he loved it.

Much better playing with the reality and consequences of machinery rather than the virtual reality and no consequences of violent shoot'em up games like Halo where you fire automatic weapons into the enemy's head and it explodes in a spray of blood and chunks. So much safer than letting your four-year-old having a supervised blast of your welder....

So yes, my workshop will also be their classroom, if they are interested, and I strongly suspect they are.

Originally Posted by RayG

Hi BT,

Just a personal view, logically, function is more important than looks, but if a machine is crap to look at and use. I'd prefer a machine with quality fit and finish over pure style.
It's the best of all worlds when function, fit and finish combine with good looking style. As you noted the Varnamo Shaper is a good example where everything comes together..

Opportunistic Buying...

I generally have a plan of what I'm attempting to do, (sometimes anyway) and try to equip the workshop to suit the overall plan, just now, I'm setting up to make woodworking tools, chisels, planes and such. So that leads me into grinding 60Rc M2, and so that means CBN, T&C grinder, Surface grinder, Heat Treatment furnace, CNC Mill and so it goes, until the master plan changes.
It's not a hard and fast plan, more of a general direction...

Once you have an idea of the general direction, you start looking for machines to fill various functions, from that point onwards it's just waiting for the right opportunity.


Sometimes a new machine can add capabilites that you didn't anticipate..

From a practical point of view, it's almost as important to have a budget, a restored machine should be less than half the cost of a new machine of equivalent capability, It's nice if you think it could be sold for not much less than it costs to restore... so H&F sell a T&C grinder for $3600, (It's a piece of crap that I wouldn't ever consider a serious machine) but, that give me a budget of $1800 to buy and restore the Cincinnati T&C grinder, So far I looks like coming in well under that, even after allowing for spindle rebuild costs. If I ever had to sell it, I could probably get back at least what it cost me.

The other factor is ugrades, sometimes you might have an opportunity to buy a Lathe or Mill at the right price, that's better than what you already have. If a Schaulblin 135 came up at the right price, I'd buy it in a heartbeat...

I'd buy it just for that tailstock...


Image courtesy of Schaublin 135 lathe

You don't happen to know of any going cheap...

Regards
Ray

PS... The beer holder is VB.... of course...

I've been in the shed all afternoon laboriously boring a hole in a bit of bar hence the late response.

So...You reckon I'd tell you if I found one going cheap??

That 135 is a late sixties model. The PM aficionados reckon the Hardinge HLV-H is a better machine but I have a strong attraction to the Swiss. Slim chance of owning either in reality but yearning isn't a sin.

BT

Hey, OT but ...... Do they still have cadets at high school?

Way back in '67 ,at the age of 15, I was a member of the Hollywood High School Cadet Rifle Team. I can recall the sight of the smaller kids sliding backwards from the recoil of the .303s we used at Swanbourne rifle range, and the sore and bruised shoulders. We fired live rounds from Bren light machine guns and Owen sub machine guns. Fired dummy rounds from a 3 inch mortar. Missed out on firing the L1A1. They were being used in Vietnam . We had an SAS sergeant show and strip one but that was as close as we got. I have no recollection of any of us fooling around with those weapons. Cadets at my school was voluntary. Corporal punishment was the norm. I fooled around in both wood and metalwork and got belted. I didn't tell my parents.

Haven't times changed.

BT

Originally Posted by Anorak Bob

Haven't times changed.

BT

Oh yeah!

I believe some schools still have cadets but they are few and far between.

Many of the 'civilian' target shooting clubs, even into the 1980's, were off-shoots of the Defense Department, the idea being that competition would be good training for future soldiers should the need arise.

Now you need to be a brain surgeon or rocket scientist to get into the army.

It is assumed that no-one will invade your country because politicians can bullsh#t their way out of an invasion.

However, if they do, today's youth can point their X-box controller at them and press the 'reset' button, and they'll get three more lives!!!

Compare Australia to countries like Switzerland in which all males are conscripted and soldiers keep their assault rifles at home. Is it any wonder why Switzerland has remained neutral?

I would favour a return to National Service for young Australians... on the strict proviso that they would not be the meat that tested weapons in Iraq, Afghanistan or some other US manufactured theatre of war designed to sustain the US armaments industry.

Despite the hype, Afghanistan or Iraq did not threaten our immediate survival. Yes, September 11, 2001 was bad, but then again the Luftwaffe bombed the crap out of London for 7 months straight. America could have levelled both Baghdad and Kabul in a day with conventional weapons, and not one US, British or Australian grunt had to die.

I think that the overwhelming reason that today's youth is weak is because their leaders are weak. They lie, they steal, they cheat,they worm out of obligations - they have no integrity. Their leaders during the 'War on Terrorism' were George Bush Jr, Tony Blair, John Howard, not Winston Churchill, Theodore Roosevelt, or Robert Menzies. Things have gone downhill with the current leadership of this country. There is huge rhetoric, and nothing happens. Like a rat in a Skinner box, if nothing happens, they soon stop tapping the key.

As you say, times have changed.

a '36 (?) Cord Phaeton...
Greg, now I am drooling.

Originally Posted by Gerbilsquasher

I also partake in target shooting.. haven't gone hunting for a long time, and then I'd probably only shoot an animal if I was hungry or they were being a nuisance. I also receive the same negative brainwashed reaction from a majority of persons I speak to regarding these sporting activities. 'Guns kill people'... 'why do you need a gun?'... 'intelligent people don't need guns'... blah blah blah blah blah.....

My standard answer to that runs along the lines of 'I have an undergrad and 2 postgrad degrees. I've designed systems that hold a lot of medical data on over 67% of children born in this country. I've personally built 3 houses and can get by in carpentry, metalwork and IT. I own & like to shoot firearms. If that makes me stupid, what are you and what have you, personally, achieved?'

Usually they change the subject.

WRT Greg's comments, if I got caught today doing some of the things I didn't get caught doing when I was a teenager, I'd be in jail on terrorist charges. The only real difference between myself and a few of my compatriots is, I went to university and they went to Long Bay.

I still have the castings (and the patterns to make more) for a half sized Napoleon 12 pound field gun and an 1806 6 pounder naval cannon. They're garden ornaments at present.

PDW

I got into trouble at work once because I threw a little bit of dry ice (I was working in food transport at the time) in the bottom of a plastic coke bottle, poured in a little bit of water, did the cap up tight and threw it out into the middle of the yard, not near anyone. One smart #### bludger agency casual walks up to it and kicks it. The extra agitation sped up the reaction and it exploded. This little trick is quite safe as the most that can happen is that someone can be startled by the loud noise.

Next day it was reported to the manager and I received a verbal warning about endangering fellow workers and OHS issues. This coming from a workplace where the fire extinguishers were 8 years out of date.

The day after I told the dobber to f@&# off because he was driving his new bomb to work on a temporary permit which is illegal. He was not allowed to drive it after 7pm and the shift ended at 10pm. So at 6pm I gave him a choice: leave now and I'll report you to your agency for abandoning your posting, or if you finish the shift at 10pm I'll have the police waiting at the gate. I knew he was a heavy dope smoker, all I had to do was appeal to his paranoia.

Two take home lessons:

1) People in glass houses shouldn't throw stones

2) Truth is a relative concept

OT- yes. Is the Aussie larrikin dead? NO!

New thread required (if it doesn't exist already) "BEST EVER WORKPLACE OR OTHER PRANKS" to stop this unashamed hijacking of this thread...