Needs Pictures: 0
Picture(s) thanks: 0
Results 16 to 30 of 67
Thread: Fire Extinguisher Fun
-
1st November 2014, 02:03 PM #16.
- Join Date
- Feb 2006
- Location
- Perth
- Posts
- 27,814
The problem with these labs and using any gas type extinguisher is the very large amount of constant air turn over meaning the halon would be pumped away too quickly. We looked at systems that closed down the fans and then using a gas dump but the risk of a fire was deemed too low to warrant such a system because this lab is a very low fire harzard area. metal machinery, electronics, practically no combustible materials, and no significant chemical load. The plastic housing of the chiller unit was one of the few combustibles in there.
Edit: On a side note Bob, I'm surprised the fire was permitted to develop past the incipient stage. Surely smoke detectors would have been installed or even a VESDA system. Such systems would have detected the fire long before visible flames were present and don't require human senses for detection, in which case it's usually way too late. If that person was not there or did not notice, you would have possibly lost the entire lab.
There were only heat detectors installed on an automated system but they were fooled because it was such a small fire and the air-conditioning system too efficient.
When the lab was being built I remember arguing about the need for smoke as well as detectors with the lab designers but they said there's nothing in here to burn and the heat detectors would be sufficient. The detectors were tested every year but that was done by releasing some heat immediately near the detectors and not actually in the room.
Nothing has been done about this since and now that I have left it's not my problem.
Interestingly in another lab we had a very low level slow smoke release when a mains power wire on a freezer door seal heater overheated and it lightly charred (yellow brown) the insulation.. In that lab we had a dust particle monitoring system that detected the smoke about 30 minutes before the smoke detector although we didn't find the source until much later.
-
1st November 2014 02:03 PM # ADSGoogle Adsense Advertisement
- Join Date
- Always
- Location
- Advertising world
- Posts
- Many
-
1st November 2014, 03:11 PM #17GOLD MEMBER
- Join Date
- Aug 2011
- Location
- Melbourne
- Posts
- 2,951
Heat detectors in such an environment seems silly to me too. They are typically installed in areas where smoke detectors would produce fault alarms such as kitchens or areas that produce large amounts of steam or other simulated condition. They also detect the fire at a later stage than smoke detectors as the fire needs to have developed to produce some heat in order for the detector to "notice" an increase in the temp in the room or if it detects a rate of rise greater than a predetermined amount.
It's not unusual to attend an alarm where a detector has gone into alarm but attending crews cannot find the source of the alarm. re-setting the alarm and heading back to station without knowing what caused the situation is less than ideal because the last thing you need is for the place to burn down after it's been deemed safe. These days, finding the source of the alarm is much easier as we all have thermal imaging cameras now. It's easy to pick up the heat signature from such items as you explained or other common causes such as burnt out balasts in fluoro lights or downlight power supplies even without removal of the covers. It's certainly made our life so much easier and less hit and miss.
Also great for finding kids hiding in bushes at night after they light up the entire streets wheelie bins on bin night!
SimonGirl, I don't wanna know about your mild-mannered alter ego or anything like that." I mean, you tell me you're, uh, super-mega-ultra-lightning babe? That's all right with me. I'm good. I'm good.
-
1st November 2014, 04:05 PM #18.
- Join Date
- Feb 2006
- Location
- Perth
- Posts
- 27,814
I worked in a 7 storey lab building in the US for a few years and was there when the fire alarm went off (multiple times). There is a whole drama around this I won't go into so to cut a long story short, the alarm was from a smoke detector in a lab on on level two but there was no fire or hint of smoke in that or adjacent rooms.This happened several times before they got out the thermal imaging gear and swept the whole building. It was a very big building with a large central services core where all the ducting and services ran so there were lots of normal hot spots so it took hours to check everything but they found nothing. After that there were no more alarms but everyone was on edge because it was a building full of biohazards and radioactive stuff.
Weeks later someone noticed a fluoro in rarely used services tunnel in the basement connecting the cores of adjacent buildings was not working, and when it was finally attended to a burnt out ballast was found. It was reckoned that smoke from the ballast had slowly worked its way along the tunnel roof and into the core. The lab where the alarm had gone off had a fresh air vent that drew air from the outside but it was leaking and drawing air and smoke in from the core. Every time someone went down the tunnel and they turned on the lights, thats what triggered it off. It was subsequently tested and confirmed to be the case. There were multiple smoke alarms high up in the roof of the core but the layout of the stuff in the core directed the smoke up to where the leak in the vent was sufficient to grab all the smoke.
-
1st November 2014, 04:54 PM #19
Would that still apply if the sprinklers are installed as a requirement of the National Trust because the building is listed in their register. The Gables building at work is probably one of the most recognisable winery linked buildings in Australia for those who drink wine.
Dean
-
1st November 2014, 06:21 PM #20.
- Join Date
- Feb 2006
- Location
- Perth
- Posts
- 27,814
-
1st November 2014, 08:13 PM #21GOLD MEMBER
- Join Date
- Aug 2011
- Location
- Melbourne
- Posts
- 2,951
Girl, I don't wanna know about your mild-mannered alter ego or anything like that." I mean, you tell me you're, uh, super-mega-ultra-lightning babe? That's all right with me. I'm good. I'm good.
-
2nd November 2014, 11:53 AM #22.
- Join Date
- Nov 2008
- Location
- Perth WA
- Age
- 71
- Posts
- 5,650
-
2nd November 2014, 04:10 PM #23
-
2nd November 2014, 06:07 PM #24GOLD MEMBER
- Join Date
- Aug 2011
- Location
- Melbourne
- Posts
- 2,951
Hi Bob & Block,
Give me some time, I'll ask when I'm back at work. I have a couple but they didn't cost me anything as I "acquired" them from a workmate who knew a mate who worked for an extinguisher servicing company. I installed a garage door opener when he built his house and the extinguishers were a payment, even though I did it as a favour.
To identify the type of extinguisher, they are red with a yellow band. I'll post a pic of one. Only thing you really need to consider, do you want an extinguisher suitable for flammable liquid? These extinguishers are rated as A(E) which means they are suitable for class A fires: wood paper, textiles etc. and the (E) indicates it can be used where an electrical hazard exists. If you want an extinguisher that will handle a flammable liquid fire then you need one suitable with (B) class fires. This is why dry powder extinguishers are so popular, you can buy them with an AB(E) rating, even though I don't like them because of the mess they leave!
Just quietly, I'm confident that any flammable liquid fire I have in my shed I will handle with my A(E) vaporising liquid extinguisher, even though it's not designed for it. Main reason for this is because there is a chance the vaporising liquid can splash the flammable liquid when it vaporises and spread the fire. But with some careful technique, this can be mitigated to some extent.
I'm almost embarrassed to confess that I have 4 extinguishers, 2 vaporising liquid, a dry powder and a 9L water stored pressure. Not that I'm pessimistic about having a fire, it's just that I have accumulated them over the years. Also, the 9L water makes a good water pistol when my nieces and nephews are around!
Anyway, I'll have a look for you guys. I am lead to believe they are not cheap though, compared to the dry powders.
Cheers,
SimonGirl, I don't wanna know about your mild-mannered alter ego or anything like that." I mean, you tell me you're, uh, super-mega-ultra-lightning babe? That's all right with me. I'm good. I'm good.
-
2nd November 2014, 06:12 PM #25GOLD MEMBER
- Join Date
- Aug 2011
- Location
- Melbourne
- Posts
- 2,951
This is what they look like
Cheers
SimonGirl, I don't wanna know about your mild-mannered alter ego or anything like that." I mean, you tell me you're, uh, super-mega-ultra-lightning babe? That's all right with me. I'm good. I'm good.
-
2nd November 2014, 07:34 PM #26.
- Join Date
- Feb 2006
- Location
- Perth
- Posts
- 27,814
I had a bit of a look on the web and it jogged my memory from fire safety training days at uni that there is a bit of confusion about "the extinguishers with the yellow band"
For example this one (http://www.fireextinguishershop.com....ainless-steel/) has a yellow band but is not an "vaporising liquid" extinguisher but a "wet chemical" extinguisher used to fight far and oil fires in restaurants.
This one http://lrd.kangan.edu.au/auto_toolbo.../fire_ex_6.htm also says it is a "vaporising liquid" extinguisher but its most definitely not.
Using a "Wet chemical" extinguisher on electrical apparatus is considered dangerous.
The Wormald fire page shows all the types of extinguishers http://www.wormald.com.au/fire-produ...classification
It shows the "vaporising liquid" extinguisher as having a bright yellow band while the wet chemical" extinguisher as having a beige or as they call it "oatmeal" band but unlike the other extinguishers I notice there is no link to the specific details of the vaporising liquid type of extinguisher.
The only extinguisher with a distinctly yellow band for which details are provided is the Sapphire MRI extinguisher http://www.wormald.com.au/fire-produ...-extinguishers which is a type of "vaporising liquid" extinguisher. Perhaps this has taken over as the standard "vaporising liquid" extinguisher?
It looks like the "vaporising liquid" extinguishers are not that easy to get hold of.
They might only be available as part of a contracted service or plan with a fire service authority.
When we purchased the Sapphires back in 2009 I think the cost about $1200 each.
-
2nd November 2014, 08:12 PM #27GOLD MEMBER
- Join Date
- Aug 2011
- Location
- Melbourne
- Posts
- 2,951
Crickey Bob! I didn't know they cost THAT much. I'm glad I didn't just discharge it in order to cool my drinks! The Wet Chemical extinguishers are called Oatmeal in colour and are specifically for fat fires. They contain a alkali (from memory) which when mixed with the burning oil, turn it into a soap, and extinguishing the fire. Absolutely useless for any other fire, but very good for that specific fire hence why they are widely used in places light KFC, Maccas, and other food places. It also creates minimal cleanup after a fire although any fire at a food place will need to be inspected and signed off by the health inspector prior to commencing trade again.
I have never seen a Wet Chemical extinguisher with a yellow band. I have only ever seen them in Oatmeal in colour. Having a yellow band would cause confusion.
Cheers,
SimonGirl, I don't wanna know about your mild-mannered alter ego or anything like that." I mean, you tell me you're, uh, super-mega-ultra-lightning babe? That's all right with me. I'm good. I'm good.
-
3rd November 2014, 08:06 AM #28GOLD MEMBER
- Join Date
- Jul 2006
- Location
- Adelaide
- Posts
- 2,680
even if it is a tad hard to run with.....lol....and also good for weed sprayer
I get outdated but unused, water ones from the school (I do work for) for nothing...new ones are only an extra $15.00 over the cost of pressure test and refill, so when I want I ask for one
fill it up with water (and weed killer if required), some air and ya ready to go....
-
3rd November 2014, 11:13 AM #29GOLD MEMBER
- Join Date
- Aug 2011
- Location
- Melbourne
- Posts
- 2,951
The local waste transfer station also have lots that get thrown our after they come up to their hydro test date. They are also a good source of stainless steel sheet.
Not much to go wrong with them, perhaps a new O ring seal or even a new trigger or gauge and they are good to go. They have a schrader valve so can easily be recharged to their nominal 700 Kpa. The biggest trick is to make sure they have pretty close to 9L. Any less and you wont have the same firefighting capacity and any more and you will run out of pressure before the contents are emptied. There is usually a sleeve inside the neck that extends into the cylinder. If you fill it up with the liquid to the bottom of that sleeve then you have 9L. Just make sure you never have your face or head over the valve or in front of the gauge. If ever they fail while recharging, you don't want your face in front of them….. Not that they fail very often.
SimonGirl, I don't wanna know about your mild-mannered alter ego or anything like that." I mean, you tell me you're, uh, super-mega-ultra-lightning babe? That's all right with me. I'm good. I'm good.
-
3rd November 2014, 11:37 AM #30.
- Join Date
- Nov 2008
- Location
- Perth WA
- Age
- 71
- Posts
- 5,650
In the linked "Fire Extinguisher Shop" there are CO2 extinguishers. How would these go for a typical shed application, i.e. flammable liquid fire? They say they can be used on Class B Fires - flammable and combustible liquids but then state that they have limited effectiveness.
I had a look around the office here and there are both CO2 and dry powder type extinguishers. I'm sure most of the 40 odd staff would not be aware of the after effects of using the dry powder extinguisher.
BT
Similar Threads
-
Fire
By francè in forum WOODTURNING - GENERALReplies: 24Last Post: 23rd July 2012, 12:38 AM -
old fire extinguisher
By forunna in forum NOTHING AT ALL TO DO WITH WOODWORKReplies: 0Last Post: 31st August 2006, 11:49 PM -
Fire extinguisher safety
By Rossluck in forum SAFETYReplies: 4Last Post: 21st April 2006, 11:00 PM -
Fire Extinguisher
By John Saxton in forum SAFETYReplies: 16Last Post: 26th July 2005, 08:13 PM -
Fire Extinguisher
By Dean in forum WOODWORK - GENERALReplies: 34Last Post: 18th January 2005, 10:46 PM