Not Sure About This - A Flangeless 30 Taper Arbor

**Anorak Bob** · 15th December 2013, 06:26 PM

I was poised, ready to hit confirm bid on a Mizoguchi boring and facing head very early this morning and I didn't. I watched it sell for $380 AU, boxed, complete bar one small accessory and with reasonable postage to Perth.

There were two reasons for the final second abandonment. The Mizoguchi is about the size of a Wolhaupter UPA3 which is a bit too big for my mill. It would do some jobs wonderfully but would be too large for others. Suits the little Deckel FP1 because the German has the benefit of a couple more inches of Z.

The other reason was the lack of the notched flange or ring usually found on a 30, 40, 50 NMTB, ISO, SK or SA taper arbor. The Mizoguchi was hardly dainty, it came with 3/4" diameter boring bars. Given my understanding that these shallow angle tapers rely on drive via their flange, it seemed strange that it should be absent on the Mizoguchi's arbor. My mill's spindles, like most others, are hardened. I dare say the arbor was also hardened. It would be relying on drawbar tension to hold everything in place. The spindles, being irreplaceable, were not worth the risk of damage so the finger stayed off the button.

Was my fear justified? Had the head been smaller I would have been in a real quandary.

Bob

A couple of the seller's photos....

**Stustoys** · 15th December 2013, 07:39 PM

Hi BT,
Should have bought it. Looks to be plenty of room to fit sleeve with drive dogs if you felt the need.(which I doubt I would on my machine, but would on your machine.)

Am I helping?

Stuart

**Michael G** · 15th December 2013, 07:59 PM

The thing with a boring head is that you are not (shouldn't be) taking massive cuts. The 3/4" bars are for rigidity rather than strength. My boring head hasn't got the flange with drive slots in it either but seems to work alright (at the same time slots would be nice, as periodically I have to re nip the draw bar because it moves). I had always thought that the flange less design was a Deckel thing anyway.

Michael

**Anorak Bob** · 15th December 2013, 09:27 PM

Originally Posted by Stustoys

Hi BT,
Should have bought it. Looks to be plenty of room to fit sleeve with drive dogs if you felt the need.(which I doubt I would on my machine, but would on your machine.)

Am I helping?

Stuart

I can cope by knowing that it was way too big for my mill. You have 21 hours remaining to bid on the projector. Hope I've helped.

BT

**Ueee** · 16th December 2013, 12:01 AM

Originally Posted by Anorak Bob

I can cope by knowing that it was way too big for my mill. You have 21 hours remaining to bid on the projector. Hope I've helped.

BT

Just a nudge is all it takes.....BT is good with his nudges, i just bought a Quick Knurler with the help of a nudge from BT. I think i can put up with it as an Xmas pressy. Specially since it includes 6 pairs of wheels. How can it be i have spent more on a knurler (only just though) than i did on the Antrac lathe

The shank is 25x20 BTW Bob.

Ew

**azzrock** · 16th December 2013, 02:28 AM

g;day, there will be plenty more boring heads to bid on. Although that one seemed to be a good price. I would of flipped a coin.
could the arbor be replaced.
Ive got a boring head not the same sort of quality as that. I used to use it on the phantom Kondia. I welded a ring on it for
drive dog. It looks rough nit worked very well.
aaron

**RayG** · 16th December 2013, 01:17 PM

Hi BT,

I think you did the right thing, the Mizoguchi seems to be every bit as good as the Wohlhaupter, Ken (aka Toggy) brought his over one day, and it looked excellent, RC has one too, I think there is a youtube video.

But I wouldn't use it without the drive dogs, yes, you'd probably get away without, but who wants to cover the repair cost if it screws up the spindle...

So for that one to be any use you'd have to make a drive ring... better to wait for another one..

( Does that make you feel better...

)

Regards
Ray

**Anorak Bob** · 16th December 2013, 03:56 PM

Originally Posted by RayG

Hi BT,

I think you did the right thing, the Mizoguchi seems to be every bit as good as the Wohlhaupter, Ken (aka Toggy) brought his over one day, and it looked excellent, RC has one too, I think there is a youtube video.

But I wouldn't use it without the drive dogs, yes, you'd probably get away without, but who wants to cover the repair cost if it screws up the spindle...

So for that one to be any use you'd have to make a drive ring... better to wait for another one..

( Does that make you feel better...

)

Regards
Ray

I'm comfortable with my decision Ray.

I started looking for a UPA-2 image to post but got side tracked. Found these instead. My interest is piqued.

A bit more here - Which boring head should I go for? | Model Engineer There is some Emco connection I haven't yet found it.

Bob.

ps Stu. I don't know what the score is with the photos. I have posted them again as attachments.

With regards to a simple facing head, the US firm Everede produced some that looked simple. I may have some better photos buried at home. These are next to hopeless. Boring & Facing Heads: Everede Tool Boring & Facing Head, R8 | Industrial Surplus, Inc.

And then if your French is good you could follow Tien here - Les dessous d'une Wohlhaupter : Outils et accessoires - Usinages

**Stustoys** · 16th December 2013, 04:26 PM

Hi Bob,

Your pictures arent working.

One of the ideas I've been kicking around for when I have nothing else to do is modifying a normal boring head to make it a facing head. Surely its been done? some sort of star washer in the hex key socket.

Stuart

p.s. thank you

**welder** · 16th December 2013, 06:34 PM

Originally Posted by Ueee

Just a nudge is all it takes.....BT is good with his nudges, i just bought a Quick Knurler with the help of a nudge from BT. I think i can put up with it as an Xmas pressy. Specially since it includes 6 pairs of wheels. How can it be i have spent more on a knurler (only just though) than i did on the Antrac lathe

The shank is 25x20 BTW Bob.

Ew

was that the quick on gumtree ?

**Stustoys** · 16th December 2013, 06:51 PM

Originally Posted by welder

was that the quick on gumtree ?

Yes, I asked already lol

Stuart

**Ueee** · 16th December 2013, 07:06 PM

Originally Posted by Stustoys

Yes, I asked already lol

Stuart

Yes I saved stu $300, aren't I nice.

Now he should have no hesitations about that projector that ends in 10 min or so.....

Ew

**Stustoys** · 16th December 2013, 07:16 PM

You did.
I know where to send my knurling work

I thought gumtree was more your "local pick up" sort of thing.

1m8s...... maybe next time

Stuart

**Anorak Bob** · 16th December 2013, 10:54 PM

Simple enough Stu?

006-011.jpg 006-011_1.jpg 006-011_2.jpg

**Stustoys** · 16th December 2013, 11:03 PM

Hi Bob,
Thats pretty much what I had in mind for the normal boring head. Though the idea was to mount the off the machine so as to not need the bearing and torque bar.

Do you happen to know if that one has a stop?

Stuart

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