Thread: Hercus AR Headstock Bearings

Hi Pete,

Thanks for going to the trouble to find out the bearing prices, they are most reasonable.

The 9" Hercus is fitted with class 3 bearings, not the standard variety.

The difference in concentricity is STANDARD CLASS-0.015", CLASS 3-0.0003".

To the hobbiest, probably wouldn't be discernable. I reckon the Class 3 bearings will be much more expensive, so just for comparison, next time you are in the vacinity of your bearing supplier, would you mind asking?

I have got my feelers out too, and expect prices to arrive tomorrow. Then we can compare notes.

Kind regards,

Ken

For me the journey is at an end,my guy gave me his expert opinion I already asked and that was my reply.
Regards Peter

Buzzing around the net having Googled Hercus and ist contact was
www.steammachine.com/hercus/page6.html is this the same Charlie Lear? who quoted on page 7 of the site you were searching he was helping find bearings for your machine.Think you are in good hands already. Take care Peter

Originally Posted by neksmerj

The 9" Hercus is fitted with class 3 bearings, not the standard variety.

The difference in concentricity is STANDARD CLASS-0.015", CLASS 3-0.0003".

To the hobbiest, probably wouldn't be discernable.

Even for the hobbyist, fifteen thou' is a HUGE amount for many things.

My 1949 Australian Hertbert lathe has NO discernable runout at the spindle.

(I have no information available to advise if these are still the original bearings or replacements).

Even if it was ONE thou' out I would be concerned.

Hi Pete,

Yes, it's the same Charlie Lear who wrote the article "The Hercus lathe saga" "You spent $2000 on what".

Mention of my quest is right at the end of his updated web site. He has been most helpful, but could not shine any light on the headstock bearings. The info I gained came from Timken. All I'm waiting for now are prices on grade 3 bearings.

Regards,

Ken

I have the original Inspection Record for my Model A dated 28.8.67.
Spindle taper run out
At the end of 7 inch bar Permissable error .001 tested .0006
At spindle nose " " .0003 " .0002
Test bar parrallel with the bed
horizontal plane
toward the tool " " .0007 " .0005
Vertical plane (free and rising) " " .0007 " .0001
Aerial Slip9Measured at two points
displaced by180 degrees) " .0005 " ..0002

Now having said that I tried to understand Ken has ballraces different to mine,where tolerances are measured with his taper bearings etc is now in his hands to explain and verify,sometimes it is better to not try to learn too much about bearings without comparing apples to apples.
In this exercise found out the angle boring attachment that came with mine in the original grease is now worth 1800 dollars,I also got a milling attachment in the original grease,a full set of imperial collets and many other bits and pieces,I have collected several chucks and feel very happy with my purchase some 12 years ago.

Have as much fun with your lathe as I am having with mine.

Peter

Struth Pete,

The inspection document you have, is probably worth more than the lathe.

I'm sure that Tony at www.lathes.co.uk, would appreciate a copy. His email address is [email protected]

I would certainly appreciate a copy, if possible.

Ken

9" HERCUS HEADSTOCK ROLLER BEARING PRICES.

The following quote came a large bearing supplier in Campbellfield, Melbourne.

Standard grade bearing prices are as follows.

FRONT HEADSTOCK TAPER ROLLER BEARING
Timken 18685 with 18620 cone, complete assy $54.37 incl GST ex stock.

REAR HEADSTOCK TAPER ROLLER BEARING
Timken 14138A with 14276 cone, complete assy $37.72 incl GST ex stock.

Class 3 bearings are not available, and if made to order, would cost in excess of $1000
with a delivery time of 16 to 18 weeks.

Regards,

Ken

Oh no!

Good news and bad news.

Today I finally got around to removing the Hercus head stock spindle. It's a job I've been putting off thinking it would be difficult, but it came out with little trouble.

With bearing covers removed, and a grub screw in the vee belt pulleys, she tapped out with a block of wood and a sledge hammer. I also had to insert two pieces of timber between the bull gear and the head stock casting to stop it from moving.

My suspicions of the noisy spindle were confirmed. The rear taper bearing looked new, the front race was full of rusted rollers, rusted cage and rusted outer shell. What a shame.

Well that means a new front bearing assy, I'm not even going to try and clean it up. Reckon the rear bearing will be OK, or should I replace both?

Can't justify a special order for grade 3 bearings at over $1000, will have to be standard grade.

Ken

If you are going to change 1 do both, its not worth while in my opinion to just change 1,you've allready done the hard work.
Seems you have changed your opinion on belting the spindle out with hardwood and hammer,you still could of made the puller.
Did your inner cones come out ok.
Not knowing anything about the roller bearing headstock what I'm about to say may or not be feasible.
Try and have a think why the front bearing was comtaminated,(maybe water depending on how it was stored or possibly from coolant.
If its practical when re-installing you maybe able to use some type of Gasket Eliminator or very thin Gasket Paper between your bearing and retainer plate.

The Manual Gold from

www.bsc.com.au/html-bsc04/indexBSC.htm under lhs Our Products.

The CD or DVD is free to you.Could always give you a reference.

Happy New Year Peter

PS Make your own decision on the one stuffed bearing based on bearing experts. What did your mate do with his?

Hi Pipeclay,

Thanks for your advice, and thanks to Pete.

I presume you mean the outer bearing shells. They are still in the head stock casting. There are several holes in the casting at each end, strategically placed so a pin punch can be inserted to knock the shells out.

This I will do next when the weather cools down a bit.

Ken

Got onto the group by accident while looking for info on Aussie-made lathes. Thought I would throw in a bit of info that may help someone.


I can confirm that that a set of Class 3 taper roller bearings for the Hercus lathe will cost AU$1000 +++ but a metal lathe with standard bearings is really not much more than a fancy woodworking lathe. So yes they cost plenty but putting in standard bearings simply defeats the work that was done to build the lathe to its original tolerances. Whatever you paid for the machine it will be 'worthless' as a precision tool if it doesn't run up to spec. But on the bright side the assembly radial runnout on standard class Timken taper roller bearings is aroung 0.001 to 0.002 inch NOT 0.015 inch - this brings things back quite a bit.

I got my bearings from BSC in Sydney. They ordered the bearings direct from Timken in the USA and because I was prepared to wait till the regular shippment was sent the freight was NIL. Mine were in stock at the time (about 2 years back) but availability varies.

Also the set of bearings for the Hercus lathe is the same as that fitted to the Hercus Model O and OM milling machines (I know cause I have one - the milling machine not the lathe). May open up a possible source of used bearings or the opportunity to do a 'bulk' order if someone else wnat sa bearing set for lathe/mill and maybe get a discount from the supplier.

The radial runnout tolerances are measured at the spindle taper - axial runnout is meaured on a suitable part of the spindle mount ie a 'bit' which is machined vertical to the spindle axis. The various specifications and measuring techniques are set out in Dr George Schlesinger's "Testing Machine Tools" (published by both the Machinery Publishing Co. in UK and the Industrial Press in USA - first published in 1932 and regularly reissued: I have a 1954 edition ). Also contains lots of good info on adjusting, levelling and aligning lathes, milling machines, etc etc.

Cheers & beers
John

Dear Sheraton,

I am facing the issue of head stock taper roller bearings, right now.

During the restoration process of my Hercus, I discovered to my dismay that the front bearing was rusted, the rear bearing looks perfect.

Please let me know approximately how much the new set of class 3 bearings cost you, several years ago.

Looks like I will have to buy a ticket in Tatts.

Ken