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Thread: Something French
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5th November 2011, 08:49 AM #1.
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Something French
From 1860. A machine a tailler les engrenages coninques made by Ateliers Ducommun in Alsace. A bevel gear cutter. This is located in the Musee des Artes et Metiers in Paris.
Anyone with even the slightest interest in model engineering would find this place enthralling. It is chock a block full of scale models made by modelmakers for the manufacturers of mining machinery, metalworking machinery, looms and other textile making machinery, trains......... What better way to present your product to a potential buyer than a scale model. I will post some photos of these models later.
The photos below are not of a model. This is the real deal. Sorry about the image quality of the non flash shots, the guard did not see the flash go off when I had the camera in the machine's gizzards. Most of the non flash shots are 1/8 of a second. I'd left my little tripod back at the hotel.
I was reprimanded for using the flash while photographing Joseph Whitworth's planer of 1850. If there is any interest, I will post those photos.
BT
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5th November 2011 08:49 AM # ADSGoogle Adsense Advertisement
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5th November 2011, 09:11 AM #2Distracted Member
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Petit Miam. Just gorgeous! And the pics came out great.
Pla-ner! Pla-ner! Pla-ner!
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5th November 2011, 09:51 AM #3GOLD MEMBER
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I want one! how often you think something like this comes up on ebay?
As I understand it, it looks like it cuts the teeth to the proper shape, unlike the teeth cut on a mill.(I'd have to get my books out to check that, I've never made a bevel gear)
Thanks for the pictures BT, dont get yourself arrested.
Stuart
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5th November 2011, 12:46 PM #4
Thanks Bob,
Amazing machine, I can't figure out how it works, but it looks beautifully engineered.
If you get arrested, let us know, we'll post bail..
Regards
Ray
Old Joe Whitworth's planer eh? ...
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5th November 2011, 01:01 PM #5GOLD MEMBER
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Hi Ray,
If I'm not misstaken(so thats about a 50/50 shot ) it works some what like a shaper, in fact two shapers side by side to get the taper. Which it why there are two cutting tools each on its own dovetail way, each adjustable for angle, they move apart as they cut.
https://www.woodworkforums.com/attach...263-large-.jpg
I dont understand how the cut depth is adjusted though, at least not yet.
Stuart
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5th November 2011, 01:02 PM #6Distracted Member
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I think you're right Stuart. I kept thinking it was camera distortion, but they are two separate dovetail slides, not parallel.
I wonder what the Poms think of the French owning the Whitworth planer? Just about be enough to start a war wouldn't it?
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5th November 2011, 01:18 PM #7
Hi Stuart,
You mean like this...
Is that what you mean?
Most of the other stuff would be for indexing and adjusting for different diameter gears..
Regards
Ray
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5th November 2011, 01:41 PM #8Distracted Member
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I think the tooth being cut is at the bottom, and each tool cuts one side of the same tooth. So with the angled tool path you get the tapered tooth form, not possible when you single point. In that case you cut one side of two adjacent teeth at the same time.
Edit: Sorry Ray, I can't read. I thought you were pointing to the tooth being cut.
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5th November 2011, 06:21 PM #9GOLD MEMBER
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Hi Ray,
Yes but also this.
Havent got my head around how thats all contected underneath though.
Stuart
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7th November 2011, 06:14 AM #10.
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Augmentation
I had to go back.
Some of my previous photos were lacking so I borrowed my wife's Canon G12 in hope of some improvement. Might be some repetition.
I am uncertain as to how the depth of cut is altered. It appears to me that the cutters must be adjustable but the means eludes me. The circular table is not integral with the horizontally rotatable upper casting. I am also unable to fathom the workings of the horizontal rotational feed mechanism.
The quality of construction is outstanding. This machine does not look like something that was made a century and a half ago.
BT
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7th November 2011, 09:08 AM #11I was reprimanded for using the flash while photographing Joseph Whitworth's planer of 1850. If there is any interest, I will post those photos.
Thanks for the great photos.We don't know how lucky we are......
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7th November 2011, 09:30 AM #12Distracted Member
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The circular table is not integral with the horizontally rotatable upper casting. I am also unable to fathom the workings of the horizontal rotational feed mechanism.
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7th November 2011, 10:55 AM #13GOLD MEMBER
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Hi BT,
I'm pretty sure I have the horizontal rotational feed figured out but what worries me is I cant figure out why you would want it. At best it looks like it will only feed about 180 degrees.
[QUOTE=Bryan;1398010]So the tool slides stay put, but the rest of the assembly rotates on that worm drive at the front? Which appears to have an incremental feed, like a shaper. [QUOTE]
Thats how I'm seeing it.
I think the gear has to rotate on its axis to cut spiral bevel gears?
The cutter depth still eludes me also, I thought I had it a couple of times but your pictures proved me wrong. As you say it certainly appears they move up out of the table.About all that I have worked out is they are missing the bolt that locks the "circular table".
Did you ask them if you could plug it in?
Stuart
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7th November 2011, 06:54 PM #14
Thanks for the extra pictures BT, not sure I've got any better ideas as to how it works.
But,
There are three ways of deepening the cut,
1. Raise the cutter, but as Stuart says, there doesn't seem to be any mechanism for this.
2. Lower the work, but for the angle to remain the same, the gear would need to rotate longitudinally, I can't see any mechanism for that to happen.
3. Move the workforward, closer to the cutters, sorry, backwards to deepen the cut.... that method would retain the angle and the cutters could stay moving on the same path.. There appears to be a square drive on the back, but the handle is missing, maybe that's the cutting depth adjustment..
As the thread title suggests, there is something very French about this machine...
Regards
Ray
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7th November 2011, 07:11 PM #15Distracted Member
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What if the worm drive turned a large thread, which raised the whole cutting platform up toward the workpiece?
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