Thread: Getting a trade qualification without doing an apprenticeship.

Yeh been looking at that issue myself.

It may not be as simple as they down as Skilling solutions lead you to believe.

It will vary greatly from trade to trade, if they are going to give you RPL, you will need some sort of proof or documents.

Then they say "additional training" ...ask the what that is precisely.

It will most likly be very much easier for the non indentured occupations.... But if it is an endentured trade, you may have to come up with an employer that will take you on as an apprentice.......and they will probaly want to pay you as one.

Possibly the worst case is the electrical trades...I've been making enquiries.

In the electrical trade they wont even talk to you about RPL, regardless of any previous qualifications , till your indentures are signed, which means you have to start as a 1st year mature age apprentice, and will be rated as such till you are assessed, probaly on your first block release.
With the government employers they wont be signing your indentures till the 3 month trial period is complete and then you have to wait for them to book your block release...so it is likely that 6 months will pass as a 1st year.

It is still a viable course, but having a cooperative employer will make all the difference.

It may also be helpfull to build some qualifications prior, Things like current welders certificates, and industrial licences....A fork ticket and a medium rigid licence open many doors.

Some of these may help with RPL, others will just make you more attractive to an employer.

Skilling solutions is a great thing, and RPL is also....just don't get too optimistic.

Go back to them an start talking about specifics and see how you go....if the assessment is free..what have you to lose.

I was speaking to a bloke who runs a group training orginisation.....overall they ststistic is that arround 30% of all youths who start apprenticships do not complete, on the other hand the non completion rate among mature age apprentices is very very low.

So for an employer who wants an apprentice to keep as a tradesman.....mature apprentices can be very attractive.

good luck.

cheers

thanks for posting that will checkout the victorian equivalent Recognising Your Skills - Skills Victoria

In NSW it is done through the TAFE system and to get assessed you fill out an application and they wont even look at it until you fork out $1500.00. They then assess you and they determine what skills you have. Like Soundman says you need some sort of proof from previous employers and any other sources you can come up with.

The trouble with me at my age everyone I worked for or did work for had either died or retired.

In the building trade they have divided it up into about seven categories with a certificate III being the highest.

If you wanted to do two or three trades you would have to fork out $1500.00 for each one.

It's not so much about getting a trade certificate but more about getting a Trade License to work on a building site or to work for yourself and charge customers in the home building industry.

I believe all states have similar programs

I actually had to use it myself.
I am a qualified refrigeration mechanic and have been in the game for some...er a ruddy long time.

When they started putting air conditioners in cars I was an apprentice and the auto industry didnt want to know any thing about them. So from my apprenticeship days and over the years I was always working on them on and off so to speak as I mainly did commercial air conditioning and mostly did the auto air stuff as weekend work away from normal employer.

When the various state governments began imposing Ozone licensing I only had to prove that I was a qualified mechanic ie trade papers and bingo was able to work on all refrigeration stuff. Having spent most of my trade in air conditioning I had wealthy experience in the smallest systems right up to and including 150 ton cascade low temp refrigeration systems to and including 500 ton absorption chillers and 1000 ton centrifugal chillers and all the stuff in between. Although most of the work was in aircondioning I always had had refrigeration jobs as well both domestic fridge and cool rooms, beer temprites etc.

Now back a few years ago when the federal govt took over the control of Ozone depleting substances etc all of a sudden I was not licenced to work on Auto stuff...why cos I didnt have Automotive certification AUR20799 ( i think it is...its hanging on the wall above the window and my reading glasses wont let me see it....old and blind as a bat she says). Anyway I had to even fight for the refrigeration certification.

So back to school (the Automotive School) and do a practical test to prove I can fit gauges and remove them from auto air systems without letting gas escape. Bugga me I was doing this auto air con stuff when the auto air industry had'nt even been born!!!!


Pain in the preverbial having to do that to get my acreditation in a field I knew and had at one time been accredited by SA Gov't, and at a modest cost of $250.00.

I'm going through this process with one of the guys I work with. He has 25 years+ experience, and I need him to get a cert III fitting & machining trade. NSW TAFE has been really good - the head teacher out at Mt Druitt was very helpful. Basically he still has to run through 2 nights / week for a couple of years but will come out with the full qualification. It is completely self paced and competency based - if he can prove to the teachers he has the competeny then they will pass him. Some subjects he has instant credit for, but others require all the coursework. Cost is $700 p/a. We then apply after he has finished and with experience he gets a cert III. This avoids the indentured apprentice thing, and was the best way of doing it.

Get a hold of the head teacher for the course you are interested in and see how you go.

I just think it is all about making money for TAFE colleges and jobs for the boys. Making people do these courses for things they have been doing all there lives and some of the best training you can do is actual on the job training.

Probably the best training other than that is an apprenticeship which is basically on the job training which is far better than book training.

That may be true Barry, but unless you have that "bit of paper" a lot of businesses will not recognise your abilities... You cannot train an apprentice yourself unless you have a diploma or certificate in whatever you are training your apprentice..

It is becoming increasingly apparent businesses are putting more emphasis on you having that bit of paper then your actual skills...

Originally Posted by .RC.

but unless you have that "bit of paper" a lot of businesses will not recognise your abilities

To be a fridgie we need two licences
Refrigerant Handling Licence and Restricted Electrical...with out them both your not worth having as an employee

To get those licences you need that bit of Paper

What you both say is true, but at my age over the 50 odd years involved in the building industry I have met a lot of trades people with their tickets that I wouldn't feed or give a job to and I have met a lot of people without their papers that were excellent trades people and the sad fact is they are forced to go and get paper work so they can keep working.

Like you say Eskimo you have been doing something most of your life because they move the goal posts you have to go and prove that you know what you are doing.

I have a friend who is an Electrical Contractor who has been doing Air Conditioning for the last 40 years and owned three separate Air Conditioning Companies and had to go and prove that he knew what he was doing as a Fridge Mechanic and my son-in-law also had to do the same.

I am typically called the Jack of all trades and Master of none and made a living at all of the industries I have worked in before the bureaucrat's took over. Over the years I have had over 30 occupations of which several of these were being carried out at the same time but I only have the Trade Certificate of one which I served my apprenticeship in which was Patternmaking which is mostly done today with Computers and CNC routers and where I live there are no Patternmaking jobs anyway.

Even if I had tickets for all of the trades I have worked in because of my age no one would give me a job anyway because I can't even score a job in sales that I spent several very successful years in winning many awards and you don't need a licence or qualification to do that.

Originally Posted by Barry_White

I just think it is all about making money..... and jobs for the boys.

OHSW can almost be the same.....I have to prepare a work method statements to walk on a flat roof for one of my clients...a roof with a walkway and hand rails both sides and which has a steel staircase to get to it....?????

then there is preparing a work method statement for servicing a Air Con at ground level

Yeh all this "training stuff" is now nationaly standarised and acredited.

The findamental problem is that all of this structure has been designed by acedemics.....and there is no acknoledgement that anybody is capabale of learning anything on their own.

"you can not be competent unless you have been trained and assessed"

and the acedemics and politicians are concentrating on "ocupational licencing"... not skills.

The other big issue I have with institutionalised education is that there is a very strong philosophy of "Education as a behaviour modification process", rather that a an information provider and skills builder.

I now have a cert IV in workplace training and assessment...and under the current structure I am capable of training anything I hold a qualification for.

So if I went out a sucessfully completed a "certIII in Nosewanging", I could quite reasonably go out the next week and teach it.

No necessity to have a higher level of knoweledge, no requirement for any industry experience.

And you need a peice of paper to do just about anything.

and because you have been hand held thru a course and passed the assessment.....you must be competent......no assessment at a later date to measure knoweledge retention.....no differeing levels of achievement.....no acknoweledgement of excelence... just you are or you aren't.

And there is no benifit in doing your trade and working in it for decades....try and move up and they will question the currency of your qualifications.

There is very much an expectation that you should constantly be doing some sort of course or other....because there is no way you could keep up with developments in your trade on your own.....you cant know that because you weren't told by someone who is qualified to tell you.


believe me chaps there is a big future in being a trainer....they simply can not get enough of them to fill the demand.

There is no future for you if you arent doing training or accumulating pieces of paper.....who cares what you know or how good you are at your job

arrrrrrrgggH

cheers

Originally Posted by soundman

Yeh all this "training stuff" is now nationaly standarised and acredited.

The findamental problem is that all of this structure has been designed by acedemics.....and there is no acknoledgement that anybody is capabale of learning anything on their own.

"you can not be competent unless you have been trained and assessed"

and the acedemics and politicians are concentrating on "ocupational licencing"... not skills.

The other big issue I have with institutionalised education is that there is a very strong philosophy of "Education as a behaviour modification process", rather that a an information provider and skills builder.

I now have a cert IV in workplace training and assessment...and under the current structure I am capable of training anything I hold a qualification for.

So if I went out a sucessfully completed a "certIII in Nosewanging", I could quite reasonably go out the next week and teach it.

No necessity to have a higher level of knoweledge, no requirement for any industry experience.

And you need a peice of paper to do just about anything.

and because you have been hand held thru a course and passed the assessment.....you must be competent......no assessment at a later date to measure knoweledge retention.....no differeing levels of achievement.....no acknoweledgement of excelence... just you are or you aren't.

And there is no benifit in doing your trade and working in it for decades....try and move up and they will question the currency of your qualifications.

There is very much an expectation that you should constantly be doing some sort of course or other....because there is no way you could keep up with developments in your trade on your own.....you cant know that because you weren't told by someone who is qualified to tell you.


believe me chaps there is a big future in being a trainer....they simply can not get enough of them to fill the demand.

There is no future for you if you arent doing training or accumulating pieces of paper.....who cares what you know or how good you are at your job

arrrrrrrgggH

cheers

Soundman

You've taken the words right out my mouth and expressed them far better than I ever could.

well a blokes got have a win sometimes

cheers