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  1. #61
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    Dean, many years ago on my way home from work I came across an abandoned EF falcon sedan. The bonnet was heavily caved in and a dead roo on the roadside 30m or so back. The airbag had deployed.

    I'm with you, I'd rather not have an airbag in my face after hitting a roo, they may deflate in 0.4 of a second or whatever but midway round a corner at 100 it would take more than 0.4 of a second to regain the nerves!

    I use gloves on a drill press because it hurts when a piece of sheetmetal is ripped from an ungloved hand when the drill jams! Never eve wear gloves on a lathe though!

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  3. #62
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    Dean, if I have misread your posts then I apologise, that's the trouble with the written word. At the time of your writing it certainly sounded like an attitude of "I don't need safety regulation as I am careful". I have heard that many times before and sadly some people have the scars (literally) to prove that it wasn't a good attitude. I genuinely hate seeing or hearing of people being physically hurt. The program on TV, "Funniest Home Videos", which is basically 45 minutes of watching people getting hurt, I find it abhorrent. I literally can't bear to watch it for that reason. It sounded like you were lining yourself up to get hurt, and I'm now pleased that you have assured me that my concerns are unfounded.

    I am not you, nor am I am expert in this area, far from it. I just happened to have read a few articles on ABS/Airbags etc as I was looking for clues to my car's problem. Completely unrelated of course, but I'm easily distracted. However I believe that any bullbar/roo-bar needs to be compatible with the airbag system. Furthermore the modern airbag systems are very sophisticated. This is what I was referring to about possibly being naiive as to when they get triggered. For the record, this is a cut and paste of what it takes to deploy an airbag:

    For the driver or passenger airbags to deploy, the following minimum criteria must all be met:

    1) A frontal collision has occurred while the vehicle was traveling at more than about 25km/h.
    2) The angle of impact is within a window typically around thirty degrees either side of the cars centre line (around 60 degrees in total).
    3) The deceleration forces produced are at least equal to those produced when the car collides head-on with an immovable barrier at approximately 25km/h.
    If all these triggering conditions are not met the airbag will not deploy. Thus, a vehicle with a properly functioning airbag system could suffer significant frontal collision damage without airbag deployment.
    My highlighting, as I have seen same MASSIVE roo hits and the airbags didn't deploy. Why? Well hitting a brick wall at 25 clicks may not sound like much, but I can assure you that's a heck of a deceleration. You have CRASHED so the chances are you won't be driving anywhere. Not at the time, and sure as heck not afterwards! However as I said to Stuart, I don't see any point in continuing down this theme. It's not something I have a lot of knowledge in, but I lived in the bush for many years, and I do know there is a lot of "misinformation" (a remarkably more PC way of describing what I would normally say, ie BS) regarding airbags and hitting roos. Yes I know they sometimes trigger when they shouldn't, but the upside of that is let's hope they trigger when they should!

    As far as hard hats and boots. As I mentioned I am not you. Normally hard hats are specified to be worn when there is an overhead risk. If you're now saying that they're in fact specified by the marketing department that's really nothing to do with safety! That's another completely different part of an organisations specifying something they think looks good. I take it you work in a winery, I'm originally from Adelaide and some of my friends are still grape growers. I don't recall the wineries being hard hat areas, but I'm going "home" tomorrow, so will pay more attention when I'm going past them (the irony is I don't drink!). Maybe that's all changed now, maybe it depends on the winery and perceived risk? I have no clue. I'm afraid I don't understand your situation with your steel cap boots. You're quite right, they're rubbish to wear, I use some non-capped versions and hate them. I have "normal" feet too. But you said you can get well fitting boots if you want to pay more for them. Either that, or a visit to a cobbler seems a little less extreme than having your little toes amputated! I have visions of Mad-Max Toe Cutter!! A good mate was in the army and had a lot of trouble with the issued boots. He had some custom made and while they weren't cheap, I gathered he thought it money well spent.

    Pete

  4. #63
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    Quote Originally Posted by BenM78 View Post
    I use gloves on a drill press because it hurts when a piece of sheetmetal is ripped from an ungloved hand when the drill jams! Never eve wear gloves on a lathe though!
    Can you elaborate Ben? Both machines have a rotating chuck. Why is the lathe chuck more dangerous than a drill press chuck? Is it because it's bigger?

  5. #64
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    Quote Originally Posted by jack620 View Post
    Can you elaborate Ben? Both machines have a rotating chuck. Why is the lathe chuck more dangerous than a drill press chuck? Is it because it's bigger?
    Pretty much, if I grabbed my drill chuck with two gloved hands I'd be able to stop it, especially being belt driven. Geared head lathes have no slip and will eat people whole.

  6. #65
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    I have not replied before because I am post driving after work with a rented from neighbour driver/tractor, it is late in year for this work and I have to do it before ground is totally dry. I have been collasping into bed exhausted mainly due to those medicals issues which make physical work like that very taxing for me. Nuff said.

    Quote Originally Posted by Pete F View Post

    I am not you, nor am I am expert in this area, far from it. I just happened to have read a few articles on ABS/Airbags etc as I was looking for clues to my car's problem. Completely unrelated of course, but I'm easily distracted. However I believe that any bullbar/roo-bar needs to be compatible with the airbag system. Furthermore the modern airbag systems are very sophisticated. This is what I was referring to about possibly being naiive as to when they get triggered. For the record, this is a cut and paste of what it takes to deploy an airbag:



    My highlighting, as I have seen same MASSIVE roo hits and the airbags didn't deploy. Why? Well hitting a brick wall at 25 clicks may not sound like much, but I can assure you that's a heck of a deceleration. You have CRASHED so the chances are you won't be driving anywhere. Not at the time, and sure as heck not afterwards! However as I said to Stuart, I don't see any point in continuing down this theme. It's not something I have a lot of knowledge in, but I lived in the bush for many years, and I do know there is a lot of "misinformation" (a remarkably more PC way of describing what I would normally say, ie BS) regarding airbags and hitting roos. Yes I know they sometimes trigger when they shouldn't, but the upside of that is let's hope they trigger when they should!

    As far as hard hats and boots. As I mentioned I am not you. Normally hard hats are specified to be worn when there is an overhead risk. If you're now saying that they're in fact specified by the marketing department that's really nothing to do with safety! That's another completely different part of an organisations specifying something they think looks good. I take it you work in a winery, I'm originally from Adelaide and some of my friends are still grape growers. I don't recall the wineries being hard hat areas, but I'm going "home" tomorrow, so will pay more attention when I'm going past them (the irony is I don't drink!). Maybe that's all changed now, maybe it depends on the winery and perceived risk? I have no clue. I'm afraid I don't understand your situation with your steel cap boots. You're quite right, they're rubbish to wear, I use some non-capped versions and hate them. I have "normal" feet too. But you said you can get well fitting boots if you want to pay more for them. Either that, or a visit to a cobbler seems a little less extreme than having your little toes amputated! I have visions of Mad-Max Toe Cutter!! A good mate was in the army and had a lot of trouble with the issued boots. He had some custom made and while they weren't cheap, I gathered he thought it money well spent.

    Pete

    My knowledge of airbags comes from rumours heard when they were first starting to be used and I completely discounted this. My memory is a speed of about 7 to 10 k's, so they were obviously way off. My comment re airbags was
    I have no experience with air bags in cars but considering my tally with my current car is about 30 roos, I wonder at what point the airbag will activate
    That is why I was supprised when you called me naive. This came from post #30 and was my first comment about airbags. Thanks for the information, it makes me feel a bit happier about airbags and roos.

    About wineries and hard hats I work in a corporate owned winery and big companies are stricter on this although it is still a site based decision for Treasury and some wineries don't wear them. Most small wineries I know of don't use them.

    Boots. It is normal to wear out 2 pair of boots a year in my work so I think hand made would be a huge expense and ongoing. Cutting off the (useless anyway) little toes would be a once off. At this stage it is not that bad. If memory serves me, toecutter was in the coffin on the back of the ute.

    Dean

  7. #66
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    Dean, regarding the hard hats, yeah I did a little enquiring about the place and figured out who you must work for. Say hi to Sharona for me

    My comments about airbags wasn't meant to be having a go at you Dean, indeed it was more the general way the thread was going at the stage. The point being, that maybe safety related decisions were being made based on rumours and innuendo rather than hard facts. Even in the tiniest little amount I know about this, I knew the fact is it takes a heck of a whack to set an airbag off. Yes they sometimes go off when they shouldn't, but after having the equivalent impact to hitting a brick wall at 25 kph nobody is driving anywhere. It would be a shame if people were putting off buying a safer car because of some mistaken beliefs about how airbags deploy.

    Good luck with the toe, yes I forgot about Toe-cutter's demise, such a nice chap and all

    Pete

  8. #67
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pete F View Post
    Dean, regarding the hard hats, yeah I did a little enquiring about the place and figured out who you must work for. Say hi to Sharona for me

    My comments about airbags wasn't meant to be having a go at you Dean, indeed it was more the general way the thread was going at the stage. The point being, that maybe safety related decisions were being made based on rumours and innuendo rather than hard facts. Even in the tiniest little amount I know about this, I knew the fact is it takes a heck of a whack to set an airbag off. Yes they sometimes go off when they shouldn't, but after having the equivalent impact to hitting a brick wall at 25 kph nobody is driving anywhere. It would be a shame if people were putting off buying a safer car because of some mistaken beliefs about how airbags deploy.

    Good luck with the toe, yes I forgot about Toe-cutter's demise, such a nice chap and all

    Pete
    I work for Treasury Wines, formerly Fosters, formerly Southcorp and sorry I don't know a Sharona.

    My main concern about cars is reliability. My car has just hit 400k and is still going strong tho some minor issues. Recent discussions with a mechanic, internet reading etc tell me that the later the model the less reliable the mechanics. ie The Ford Falcon BA has an engine design that on paper is streets ahead in the valve train. I am talking about twin independant variable camshafts. Both can be computer adjusted independantly. This is a very up to date system. However I have heard reports that the rest of the motor etc is not very reliable. Sigh. Actually the motor in my car was quoted as being the best in terms of lasting. The BA has serious disk shudder issues as well.

    I don't want anything fancy, just a reliable long lasting car with a bullbar.

    Dean

  9. #68
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    Quote Originally Posted by Oldneweng View Post
    I work for Treasury Wines, formerly Fosters, formerly Southcorp and sorry I don't know a Sharona.

    Dean
    Yes so does she, cellar door, so you probably wouldn't get to speak with her much. My best friend's little girl, not so little these days; doesn't wet her nappy anywhere near as much as she did when I first got to meet her 30 years ago. Her boyfriend is a viticulturist however, nice guy I'm told.

    Pete

  10. #69
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    Depends which wine sales. The one at work I generally keep up with staff but the "Gallery" which is just outside Penola I rarely visit. The one at work sells Wynns wines and the Gallery sells the other brands that we produce. I will ask tho as I have not been up there lately.

    Dean

  11. #70
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dave J View Post
    If I have to pick up something hot or heavy and sharp, I use the old thick style leather gloves.
    For anything else like welding and grinding etc I don't wear gloves. If I am sharpening HSS on the bench grinder, feeling the heat through my fingers tells me when to dunk it in the water.

    Dave
    When I did my apprenticeship with State Rail Authority NSW (went from PTC while I was there) gloves and anything rotating got you a swift kick up the bum. There were plenty of videos/pics of the results, scalpings, arms torn off that sort of stuff.
    For welding yep I use welding gloves (makes sense) and I agree with you Dave when you feel the heat it's time to dip HSS to avoid changing the hardness/properties.

  12. #71
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    im a first year apprentice fitter and machinist that operates a 15 hp centre lathe ( 2 metre between centres, 400 swing ) for 10 hours a day, 5 days a week. on our first day of learning the lathes we were shown this picture, you might not want to eat dinner after seeing this, but this will definatley change your ways of using gloves
    lathe_accident6

    a few days ago i was facing a very large mounting flange on our even large lathe that was 480mm in diameter, the cross slide handle was spinning away when feeding in and i was removing the shavings with a LONG shaving hook and the cross slide handle slipped into my pocket and tried to pull my leg around with it, you can imagine how hard my right foot slammed on that spindle brake.

    i am amazed at how any of you can want to go near lathes or millers and especially grinders with gloves on, even wearing those ever so awesome skin tight ones.

    i personally rather getting my left arm getting smashed with hot shavings, and sparks on the grinder that to risk losing my whole hand or even my arm.

    one of the other apprentices was using a 4 x 2 block of wood to push a large profile ( an oxy cut shape for those who dont know, in this case it was a ring ) up against the chuck and he turned the lathe on to 50 rpm ( i dont know why ). he prefers to leave his shirt untucked on hot days. of course the wood grabbed his work shirt and started pulling him in. he also slammed on the spindle brake

    for welding, their awesome. for fitting, they keep your hands away from harmful solvents and lubricants. but never, ever go near rotating equipment with loose clothes, gloves and an attitude that thinks, its only a bunnings drill press motor

  13. #72
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    Gross photo, but I can't see where it says a glove was the culprit. Maybe it was his sleeve?

    Quote Originally Posted by the fabricator View Post
    ..... the cross slide handle slipped into my pocket and tried to pull my leg around with it, you can imagine how hard my right foot slammed on that spindle brake.
    You'll have to stop wearing trousers then.

    Seriously though, the Worksafe Vic website says not to wear gloves when using a lathe. Seems like sensible advice, although I struggle to see how the skin-tight gloves I bought could get caught on anything. If they did, I reckon they would just tear and let go as they are quite thin. I won't tempt fate though.

  14. #73
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    That's a meaty photo. It wouldn't want to have been a hot day when it happened. By the time the coroner and worksafe investigate, he could have been there for hour before being hosed down....



    Simon

  15. #74
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    Was operating my lathe today, first time for a while. I used gloves. I was thinking about this thread as I did it and could not understand why people think it is dangerous. Chuck spinning away over in middle of lathe, hand on cross slide wheel and traverse wheel, a long way away. Stop chuck with clutch lever, measure etc. Fact! Gloved hand did not go anywhere near rotating parts. No risk. It is the method I use. Stop the chuck before you go near it. I don't follow convention because I don't trust convention as much as I trust my intelligence and common sense.

    Clutch lever on top of headstock, cross slide wheel and traverse wheel. This is what my hands touched while chuck was turning. None of these are going to grab my glove.

    If you just decide to not wear gloves because convention says it is dangerous and then decide you are safe, you may as has been mentioned get other clothing caught. I am safer than anyone who touches rotating parts without gloves because my safety instinct tells me not to take any chances. I also have worked in engineering industry and am aware of the risks.

    A fellow worker had part of his scalp torn off by a rotating tube/bar feeding into an index machine. The bar was sticking out a hole in the wall into the car park. This was at night. There was a suspected prowler in the car park and he ran out to check on it, into the rotating bar. The row of indexing machines were quickly repositioned.

    Industry invokes safety rules because they are required to by law. When something goes wrong they have to try to prevent it. They have to try to cover everyone. This is difficult to do. At home I have a much more specific safety regime. Me! It is specific and as a result is far safer because I have full control of the circumstances.

    I am not trying to say that anybody should ignore safety rules. If you feel safer following someone elses rules then go for it. I tailor my rules to be very specific to my situation and I trust my judgement.

    Dean

  16. #75
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    i am amazed at how any of you can want to go near lathes or millers and especially grinders with gloves on, even wearing those ever so awesome skin tight ones.
    Grinders have been mentioned before and the question has been asked as well. What is the specific risk with grinders? No one has answered this one yet as far as I recall. I have worked with industrial precision grinders in the past and I have never heard anything about gloves and grinders of any kind. Could somebody please explain this issue?

    Dean

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