Thread: Graziano SAG 180

By the way, this guy Welcome to Keith Price Machine Tools

Sells Gamet bearings and is a machine tool rebuilder. Maybe he could venture an opinion of your sound file. He sells manuals for the SAG 180, but there is a PM member in Cairns who also has a SAG 180...maybe he can send you his pdf copy? (He goes by...wait for it....SAG 180 on PM)

Greg

Just one thought. If it is bearing noise, wouldnt it sound the same(or close to it) in FWD and REV? Gear noise of course will change.

Stuart

If you google machine vibration analysis you might get some hints about how to assess that sound. If you are able to display the sound frequencies and plot them against spindle rpm you might be able to decide if its gear noise or bearing noise. That might be a theoretical rather than practical suggestion however as I have no idea how hard such a thing would be to do.

you need to listen to some of those chinese lathes

Your Graz sounds better!!!

if your near Gasweld, Tonsley, drop in and listen to the Toolex...then pop up on up to Gavin's place and listen to the AL960 (H&F)
one sounds like my toy...niosy as, while the other is sweet....

Often gear boxes will quieten down under load as well.... Under a no load situation the teeth and constantly knocking backwards and forwards

I'd like to try and catch up with some of the replies. In no particular order:

Originally Posted by Hunch

On those at least, you've got to watch out for carbon build up, which loves to plug the drillings in the shafts.....that in turn, feed all the bearings.....a lot are unavailable, some special order.

Thanks Hunch, that's interesting. I'm trying to think of a way to check without stripping the whole lot down. I need a manual.

Originally Posted by Greg Q

Bryan, are you sure that there are Gamet bearings in there? Greg

I guess I'm not. I got that info from reading all the old Graziano posts on PM. But I could be confusing models. I will try to verify. And thanks for the link. I have emailed Keith and I'm hoping to flush out Mark "SAG180" with my PM post.

Originally Posted by Greg Q

If you google machine vibration analysis you might get some hints about how to assess that sound. If you are able to display the sound frequencies and plot them against spindle rpm you might be able to decide if its gear noise or bearing noise. That might be a theoretical rather than practical suggestion however as I have no idea how hard such a thing would be to do.

That's a very cool idea. Don't know if I'm clever enough but I like it.

Originally Posted by Dave J

I can't remember if you have 3 phase? If not you are going to be kicking your self about the motor you sent me.

Dave, yes I have 3ph. Don't you worry 'bout a thing.

Originally Posted by Stustoys

Just one thought. If it is bearing noise, wouldnt it sound the same(or close to it) in FWD and REV? Gear noise of course will change.

Yes. My perception is that the noise doesn't change significantly. BTW, the youtube link below should load much faster than the stupid avi.

Originally Posted by Stustoys

Couldn't you find a bigger one?

I think what you mean is it's on the big side. Yes, but bigger is better right? It's only 14 x 40. But it can swing 20" in the 'gap' (it's not really a gap). And like the shaper, this is about the biggest size I can move myself. Which makes it perfect.

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AB4TiWRVMrs]YouTube - ‪Graz.noise.mov‬‏[/ame]

Bryan, after listening to the audio several times it sounds much like my colchester which after some initial digging around in the head turned out to be primarily gear noise. RC comment is correct, it changes with cutting load especially at the higher speeds. I like a comment read somewhere, "if the noise bothers you, turn up the music"

Bryan,
I thought the noise was a little different.
I'm also with Greg, that it sounds just like a Mazak I used to use, but that was a long time ago. Of course its hard to tell just how loud it is.

Sorry, my "couldn't you find a bigger one" comment should have included a smiley face. Its one solid looking lathe which I wish was in my shed, although I'm not sure the floor would take it lol. Can you take some more picture of the "non" gap and the carriage where it goes over the ways for the tailstock? Did you get any tooling etc with it?

Stuart

Stuart, it's like a normal bed, with short tailstock ways stuck on top. The large sloping surfaces are just covers for the carriage ways. A roof if you like.







Tony says this gives the advantage of a gap without the usual weakening. I'm not sure about that logic. It's got to be weaker where the bed section is smaller. They've used massive ribbing to compensate, but why wouldn't that work with a normal gap bed?

I think I did ok on tooling. 2 chucks with extra jaws, including 2 piece. 2 fixed and one traveling steady. 3 tailstock chucks. That vise base is there but no vise with it. Sundries. Haven't had time to sort it properly yet.

BTW, don't ask me to inspect machinery for you. Look what I missed:

Ouch, looks like someone did up the adjuster to much. I would counter sink a couple of socket head bolts in it to close it up and bog them over. Heat will only distort things.
Even though you missed that bit, it's still a nice lathe.

Dave

Bryan,
I cant see Tonys logic either, it comes down to the design, both yours and a "normal" gap bed have to be able to function without the gap bed there(well ok you don't even have one but you get the point). What yours has that a "normal" gap doesn't is you can still move the carriage all the way to the chuck. With a normal gap you loose the ways. Also you don't have to line the gap bed back up.

The front way is half a pyramid?
In the second picture what are the plates with bolts behind the powerfeed shaft for? stops?
Shame about the crack, like Dave I don't think its a major issue. Even if you had to make a new one I still think you got a bargin.
Stuart

Guys, yeah I'm not too worried about the tailstock at this point. Just annoyed that I missed something so obvious.

Those plates are knock-offs that disengage the feed. There's a lever on the right of the carriage with 4 positions, which selects which stop will be hit. So you can have several preset lengths. Cool huh? The one you can see seems to be set as a safety to prevent chuck crashes. Well that's what I'll use it for anyway.

Half-pyramid? Dunno, I guess you could call it that. The short vertical faces are bearing if that's what you mean.

Looks like I'm relieved of brat duty so it's shed time.

Originally Posted by Bryan

Those plates are knock-offs that disengage the feed.
There's a lever on the right of the carriage with 4 positions, which selects which stop will be hit. So you can have several preset lengths. Cool huh?

Now that you say that, I think the mazak I used 20odd years ago had that. I never used it but I think it was there. Cool indeed. So the stops are fixed to the bed?
Do you know yet if they work on thread cutting as well as power feed?

Stuart

Unless they've been removed for the pic, front way covers appear to be missing, M5 holes are visible where they attach at any rate - often removed when that extra 10~20mm is required. Lazy sods manage to frequently lose them in industrial settings.