Thread: Haimer 3d Taster - What would you do?

HI,
I would definately not go with 1 or 2 and I am very Hesitant with No. 3, because You could end with a build up of error. My Advice is to go with 4, but I say this without knowing what Your Quill size.
What size is Your Quill ie MT2, MT3 or R8 ???.

Hello,

I might have been the only forum member to have never heard of TTS or the Tormach Tooling System until reading this thread this morning. I had a look at the Tormach site and a few of their videos. The 1 3/8" removal clearance is certainly a draw card for Z handicapped mills. If you have an R-8 spindle you could purchase a 20mm collet -

R8 collets - Dunham Tool r8 collet

If your mill has a 3 Morse spindle, how about either boring out a blank nose arbor to suit or making an arbor from scratch? Sadly, 3 Morse doesn't allow the Taster's arbor to project further back into the spindle than the spindle nose so you would lose maybe 40 mm + of clearance.

I imagine the 4 screws around the perimeter of the Taster's arbor flange are for concentricity adjustment and not for fastening the arbor. Have you contacted Haimer regarding possible arbor removal?

https://www.woodworkforums.com/f65/ta...9/#post1432878

Bob.

042 (Large).JPG

ps. I should ask, how small is your mill? If you are using the TTS system to save already limited space then my suggestions are irrelevant. Can't tell you how many times I haven't been able to change chucks or even cutters because I've run out ot Z.

Thanks steran50 for your note. I am leaning towards #4.

Originally Posted by Anorak Bob

I imagine the 4 screws around the perimeter of the Taster's arbor flange are for concentricity adjustment and not for fastening the arbor. Have you contacted Haimer regarding possible arbor removal?

ps. I should ask, how small is your mill? If you are using the TTS system to save already limited space then my suggestions are irrelevant. Can't tell you how many times I haven't been able to change chucks or even cutters because I've run out ot Z.

Anorak Bob, Good to hear you looked up the TTS system. It is a really nice setup for people running R8 or MT3 spindles. It is also useful for auto tool changes if one is going the CNC route. My Mill is an R45 (HM46 equivalent) with an R8 spindle and thankfully a ton of Z (410mm). I could go the way of the 20mm R8 collet, but I really want to avoid that as it does not work in concert with my TTS setup. I am pretty much sourcing everything to suit the 3/4 TTS setup. The set screw based holder is really the only option from what I can see. That said I am sure I can add some error during the manufacture which will ensure everything I create from that day forward will be out of spec.

I contacted Haimer a while back. The silence was deafening, then the local distributor poked their head up with a price that was double the European and US rrp. That was basically the "nuclear" end of my relationship with the local guys. It is a bit of a dead loss at this point unless someone comes up with documentation on how to remove the arbor without destroying the device.

I could always contact Tormach as they have always been good on the service side. I own one of their "superfly" 45degree rake insert based fly cutters. The thing is beautiful piece of work and the cuts are amazing. You should check it out on Youtube: Tormach-Fab Lab Skill Builder: Fly Cutting with a Tormach Superfly Cutter - YouTube

Any other ideas?

My suggestion was to give it to Bob, but it sounds like he can't use it either.

Short of perhaps trying option 1, it is looking like option 4. However, if you think about it, a test to see what the accuracy of option 1 is should not be too hard to devise. My thoughts are that if you have two good surfaces (slip gauges or even ground parallels will do) and put them together in a staggered way the interface should define a line that can be indicated from both directions. If the indicator is applied to both sides of 'the line', it would give you the indicator ball diameter. However, if the indicator was turned around 180 degrees between indicating the two sides of the line, then the distance between the points should be the ball diameter +/- twice the amount that the hole is out.
Scan (Large).jpg

I think that is how it should be. Thoughts anyone?

Michael

Gets in line behind BT

Hi Michael
I been thinking along the same lines.
Wouldnt one parallel do? Move against it until you get to 0, turn the guage 180, any "off 0" is your runout. halve that and you're done.

Only problem I see is you arent sure the gauge is vertical so there will be an error(in the vertical 0)there if it isnt. But I think its going to be so small as to not matter.

Stuart

Originally Posted by variant22

Thanks steran50 for your note. I am leaning towards #4.



Anorak Bob, Good to hear you looked up the TTS system. It is a really nice setup for people running R8 or MT3 spindles. It is also useful for auto tool changes if one is going the CNC route. My Mill is an R45 (HM46 equivalent) with an R8 spindle and thankfully a ton of Z (410mm). I could go the way of the 20mm R8 collet, but I really want to avoid that as it does not work in concert with my TTS setup. I am pretty much sourcing everything to suit the 3/4 TTS setup. The set screw based holder is really the only option from what I can see. That said I am sure I can add some error during the manufacture which will ensure everything I create from that day forward will be out of spec.

I contacted Haimer a while back. The silence was deafening, then the local distributor poked their head up with a price that was double the European and US rrp. That was basically the "nuclear" end of my relationship with the local guys. It is a bit of a dead loss at this point unless someone comes up with documentation on how to remove the arbor without destroying the device.

I could always contact Tormach as they have always been good on the service side. I own one of their "superfly" 45degree rake insert based fly cutters. The thing is beautiful piece of work and the cuts are amazing. You should check it out on Youtube: Tormach-Fab Lab Skill Builder: Fly Cutting with a Tormach Superfly Cutter - YouTube

Any other ideas?

Hello Variant,

I checked out the flycutter when I visited their site this morning. It is impressive but to own one would place me in the same position both you and I are in with the too big arbored Taster. And I'm short 100mm less than you on the Z. My mill has a 30 taper spindle.

Bob.

You could use one, but then you would have to measure the size of the ball and/or the width of the parallel. Using 2 gives a vertical plane of effectively zero thickness so the ball can be checked using the machine scales. A test like this would tell you either whether you are offset from the spindle centreline or whether you are canted in one direction or the other. (You are checking the ball position so as far as the test goes they are the same thing). You would then want to do the same thing with the tester in the same orientation but the blocks at 90 degrees (on the assumption that you could be spot on in one direction but out 90 degrees to that)

The fly cutter is interesting. I have a spare (inserted) lathe tool and I might see if my fly cutter can hold that. Although I am sure that Tormach will say that there is more to it than that, it might be close enough to see whether it is a workable idea.

Michael

Hi Michael,
But isn't the point of the 3D that you don't have to worry about ball Dia? It takes care of that for you.
So one face gives you a 0 ref point. The indicator "should" read 0 through 360degrees.
Though I've never used one, so maybe I have my indicators mixed up?

If you use two parallels you'll have to set them up dead parallel to one axis

5) If Z isn't an issue why not make and adaptor? If you turn the TTS end with the 3D end on a mandrel that should solve your run out issues(subject to the difference between the size of the mandrel you make and the "20mm" of the 3D). I'd think it would use less Z than option 3.
Also as there would be almost no load, the part that goes into the R8 collet could be much shorter than normal, saving you Z on installation and removal.

Stuart(who hasn't drawn it up so it likely missing something again )

My understanding of any of these devices is that the ball is a precise size, so if you indicate one side and then the other, the width is the scale reading less the ball diameter. I too could be wrong. If only a 3D taster owner would come along and resolve the issue...

Michael

Hello,

I've got a Haimer 3D taster... much cheaper if you can get it from Germany. Get a few extra tips as they're much less over there also. With respect to the ball when using the Haimer you don't have to compensate for the ball diameter. When the taster reads zero, it really the centre.

As for your problem why don't you by a ER32 straight shank chuck?
ER32 3/4" x 4" STRAIGHT SHANK COLLET CHUCK #D20

That should hold the Haimer. You can then get the TTS conversion kit:
32432 - TTS Tool Conversion Kit

That will turn it into a TTS tool.

Christian

Hi Christian,

I reckon your suggestion would be a worthwhile and cheap compromise that would take advantage of the 1 3/8" withdrawal clearance offered by the TTS setup while not giving too much away in accuracy. OK, the Taster is going to project 40 or so mill beyond the spindle nose but at least it can be used. It's how I use mine on the rare occasions the I have enough room to play in.

I have seen tips on ebay.de but alas no shipping to Australia. When are you going back?

Bob.

After some reading, thinking, reading and thinking some more I have come up with a possible solution. It is along the lines of what Christian proposed and was close to my #3. I actually found some ER32 TTS style (same dimensions) chucks from the same place (new 10pcs C3/4 ER32 1.38L collet chuck holder CNC Milling and 1pcs Wrench | eBay) I got my 10x ER20 TTS holders. They are accurate collet chucks that are high quality and about 1/2 the price of the genuine TTS holders. I now have 10x ER25, and 10x ER32 collet holders on the way. I have some 20mm ER32 collets from my first venture into #3. The more I thought about the Z the more I started to think that I would be giving away half of nothing. I guess now the accuracy is down to the precision of the ER32 collet chuck(s) and collet(s).

Any objections to this approach? I know I am splitting hairs, but wouldn't the collet based approach be a better way (accuracy wise) than an arbor with set screw in the first instance?

Originally Posted by variant22

Any objections to this approach? I know I am splitting hairs, but wouldn't the collet based approach be a better way (accuracy wise) than an arbor with set screw in the first instance?

Don't see why it need be more accurate. An ER32 chuck will cost more, will (I would think) use a little more Z than an arbor... but it sure will be a lot faster, easier and useful for other things, unlike an arbor(unless you choose to cut one down to save some Z).

Stuart

I've been using my Haimer in a ER20 collet and I can't fault its accuracy. As for loosing Z height it hasn't really been an issue you can always reference off the bottom of a part.

That's a good link to the TTS style chucks. I'll be using that in the future ).

Bob, i'll be in Germany/Switzerland in June. I can pick up some tips then. If someone is interested PM me.

Christian