Thread: Its happened!

Originally Posted by tanii51

hmmm maybe a timely post needed "how to add a safety spring to lathe chuck keys"
any one done it???????

We are on it already. I remember that a vendor has had them for sale.
The next thing is to remember the vendor.
I think they are fairly commonly available, though I am told that can be a pain in the rrs to use if you are using them a lot.

Grahame

Originally Posted by Grahame Collins

though I am told that can be a pain in the rrs to use if you are using them a lot.

Grahame

Well look at it this way... I removed the spring from the TOS chuck that I bought... However I am not teaching young adults...

Originally Posted by .RC.

However I am not teaching young adults...

I am at tech tomorrow. Guarantee the teacher tells the kids to put their safety glasses on at least 5 times...

Originally Posted by Grahame Collins

I think they are fairly commonly available, though I am told that can be a pain in the rrs to use if you are using them a lot.

Grahame

Yep. I took mine off because the key kept popping out of the chuck, (which is what it's supposed to do of course.) My lathe has a chuck guard that means you can't have your fingers on the key when you turn the lathe on. If you were to leave the key in and turn it on (which I'm yet to do) it would flick the key into the guard, bedways, splashback or straight to the ground.

Originally Posted by .RC.

Well look at it this way... I removed the spring from the TOS chuck that I bought... However I am not teaching young adults...

I am afraid it will take more than a few spring loaded chuck key.

I have two classes of new Yr 11's
This is a Certificate 2 where I teach these kids under TAFE direction. One of the classes has over 2/3 of its members who have not passed English ,Maths and at least 1 Manual Arts subject Woodwork -Metalwork -Tech drawing in the the last year.Some of these kids have not been in a Manual arts class since Yr 8.
They understand nothing of work ethic,committment,self direction and application which are the essential tools to acheive at anything.

In a course such as this it helps to be able to read,add a string of figures and understand the basics of using a scriber ,ruler and center pop and yet that is where I am starting with most of them.

Their very lack of academic progress pre disposes them towards failure and resultant poor behaviour.

I am guessingonly 2 out of 16 will achieve a certificate.

You have to wonder about highschool administrations sometimes?

Originally Posted by Grahame Collins

I have two classes of new Yr 11's
This is a Certificate 2 where I teach these kids under TAFE direction. One of the classes has over 2/3 of its members who have not passed English ,Maths and at least 1 Manual Arts subject Woodwork -Metalwork -Tech drawing in the the last year.Some of these kids have not been in a Manual arts class since Yr 8.
They understand nothing of work ethic,committment,self direction and application which are the essential tools to acheive at anything.

In a course such as this it helps to be able to read,add a string of figures and understand the basics of using a scriber ,ruler and center pop and yet that is where I am starting with most of them.

Their very lack of academic progress pre disposes them towards failure and resultant poor behaviour.

I am guessing only 2 out of 16 will achieve a certificate.

You have to wonder about highschool administrations sometimes?

yeah you'd think the administration would have been smart enough to chuck kids like that out of school or into juvenile detention in the months before the "learning or earning" policy was implemented. -- yes, I'm being sarcastic

It's really an inditement on the whole school environment. Kids like that typically have a learning difficulty or missed some key lessons in the 1st one or two years at school. From there on most teachers find it easier to manage the kid's behaviour and pass them on to the next year than to step back and teach them the missing bits. For example if a kid doesn't learn to read in years 1 and 2, it's the rare year 3 or year 4 teacher who will take them aside and teach them to read. same with maths. same with writing. These kids just get swept along with their age cohort untill they reach the age a school can tell them not to return at the start of next term.


as to the kids' general lack of ability and initative, maybe your starting point should be to divide the class into groups arround their reading and maths ability and mechanical aptiude and structure lessons on that basis.
From when I was at school I remember a neighbour's kid who was hopeless at reading and maths, but give him a welding torch and two bits of steel to join, and you couldn't fault his technique.
Maybe some of your kids who lack the basic academic skills will excell at the practicle side of the trade, and once they have that achievement will be motivated to learn the academic stuff they've missed.

Originally Posted by ian

It's really an inditement on the whole school environment. Kids like that typically have a learning difficulty or missed some key lessons in the 1st one or two years at school. .

Missed some key lessons-50% or in some cases, less attendence -that ought to do it - The parents, when I ring them up make up an outright lie to cover junior-when you know dam well he has been seen out on his skate board when he should have been in your class.The school abscence rate is about 30% on any given day and much higher if holidays are coming up.

These are the kids that have the attention span of a gnat and display crap behaviour because they do what they please at home and mum or Dad excuse them for it.

Its possible to redirect them in a class wheres there is only a couple of themin a clas of good kids. However take a class that is top heavy with them and there is little chance of redemption. Kids do what their peers are doing, good or bad,unfortunately.

I have some enrolled in the McDonalds online maths classes and am writing explanations of technical terms in plain english,but all this is all for nought if they can't or won't read-see my comments above re committment,self starting and engagement.

These kids tell the admin how much they want to do the subject (-its 2 days a week out 4-they get an acess day so they can" study" at home) .is there any wonder why any under acheiver would knock that back.

To keep out the infidels,I push the classes very,very hard in terms of

• Safety equipment ( they turn up with out it and they sit outside and write OH &S script
• In shop behaviour- horseplay,fighting,stealing or interfering with others machinery-they are gone -forever.
• Timekeeping.
• Engagement-no sitting down or resting in the workshop.

Some naturally chose to drop out and were replaced in turn by "drop outs".Every one of the three replacements turned up and either took a sickie the next day or came in without uniform.

If I had time I might change things but at the moment I am on 38 lesson slots back to back, meaning I work with out a lesson break from Mon afternoon(last 2 lessons) toFriday afternoon-last lesson.


Anyway I am not seeking to belabor our forum and will close it off there for comments, if you will thanks gents.-

I thought it might be helpful to gain an insight of what goes on.
Thank you all for your comments thus far.

Grahame

My Bison chucks came with springs on the keys but as others have said, they are a pain to use in real life.

I've removed the springs from my chuck keys but I've set the lathe power up such that the chuck key needs to be inserted into a hole in a switch box to press a pressure switch and allow the motor to be energised.

I'm surprised such a device isn't marketed to the schools and TAFEs. Mine was very simple to make, essentially the key goes into a tube with a spring-loaded pressure switch at the base. The key is then turned slightly (like a bayonet fitting) and the power is on to the lathe. It's not hard to use and it becomes second nature very quickly.

I always had a personal rule that my hand never left the chuck key whilst it was in the chuck, the switch box is a new idea now that my lad might be using the lathe as well.

Originally Posted by Gavin Newman

I've removed the springs from my chuck keys but I've set the lathe power up such that the chuck key needs to be inserted into a hole in a switch box to press a pressure switch and allow the motor to be energised.

I'm surprised such a device isn't marketed to the schools and TAFEs. Mine was very simple to make, essentially the key goes into a tube with a spring-loaded pressure switch at the base. The key is then turned slightly (like a bayonet fitting) and the power is on to the lathe. It's not hard to use and it becomes second nature very quickly.

That's the best idea I've heard, using the chuck key itself as a form of Master switch key.

I'm surprised that it hasn't become mandatory, not only for schools and Tafe institutions, but for all lathes sold in this country.

what a hard lesson to learn he wont be doing that again and maybe everyone will listen in class now i did it once and held on to it to but thank god it was on a hercus 260 and not a something more powerful like what your school has

Originally Posted by Yonnee

That's the best idea I've heard, using the chuck key itself as a form of Master switch key.

I'm surprised that it hasn't become mandatory, not only for schools and Tafe institutions, but for all lathes sold in this country.

Gavin,
That is a great idea. You would maybe need one for each chuck key. If there anything like mine, there different sizes for different 3 and 4 jaw chucks.
I think some of the students would be lazy and use one chuck key in to operate the switch, while using the another chuck, unless the spare key was locked away after it was changed over.
For the last 18 or so years I have always been careful and proud of myself for never turning the lathe on with the chuck key in until, About 2-3 years ago I was using the chuck key to turn the chuck over while I was indicating something down the tail stock end of my 12 x 36 lathe. It was late at night and I was tired, not concentrating or looking, when I took out the key as I turned the lathe on, but the key wasn't all the way out and took my hand towards the bed, the key hitting the bed in two places (thankfully not me) and coming out. I was so lucky the same thing didn't happen to me like this young fellow.
After checking the lathe over, I found two small dings that I'm real not happy about,as I look after my gear the best I can. I packed up for the night and learned my lesson from then on, not to push myself to work on the lathe when I'm tired.
Every time I look at those 2 dents, it reminds me of what could have happened to me, or the major damage it could have caused to my lathe.
The small dents can be seen in this photo on the gap bed..
https://www.woodworkforums.com/attach...166-large-.jpg
Regards Dave

Here is a good idea on how to teach kids the dangers of machines

Practical Machinist - Largest Manufacturing Technology Forum on the Web - View Single Post - Idiots + Horseplay = Lathe lesson

It is in reply to this you tube video

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3M8voGPudso&feature=related]YouTube - Kid breaks his ankle in machine shop[/ame] No blood in the video nor mangled body parts (I doubt he broke his ankle, not enough screaming like a little girl)

Good find ,
Thanks RC.
You can bet I'll use that one.I could swear it features the cast of Dumb and Dumber.

Today,I have been rewriting our Job Risk Assessment document.
The nice Qld Govt. removed our Cover of the shield of the Crown in 2009 which means that teachers, especially those who have subjects were kids can get hurt, are now fair game for professional litigators.

Teachers unfortunate to experience an accident to a student in a higher risk class ( read Phys Ed, Home Ec and Man Arts -Engineering and Manufacturing Certificate course - now can be thrown to the wolves by an uncaring employer whose only objective is to save on the payouts.

We teachers, now need to carefully prove and document our way through the maze of stupidity, carelessness and inattention shown by disinterested students to every hazardous element of each unit.

I can pick the cherubs who are due for an accident. Head down on the desk during the theory and safety instruction and talking while you demonstrate the operation of a machine with the capacity to dismember them.

I envisage a new procedure. If said cherubs can't pass a written test and can't display competence of use ,they don't use the machine.No machine use,no certificate.Oh dear!

Time to kick the ball back in the admin court.
Its going to get very interesting in 2011.

Grahame