Thread: Another HELP on new lathe questions

The first thing that I would be considering would be the work sizes that you would need to handle. It's a lot easier to do small items on a big machine than vice versa, at least within reason. I wouldn't suggest making watch parts on a 250mm swing 1m between centres machine, but with a good machine and operator it could be done.

The big difference between a trade oriented machine and a hobby machine is the quality and amount of metal in the machine, and attention to detail in manufacturing. In most cases a preloved trade or toolroom quality machine will be more rigid and accurate than a Chinese hobby unit. With carefull shopping you can pick a machine with a full kit of accessories, and see and feel it running before committing.

With the Chinese stuff, most people don't realise that you can get near identical product in a number of price ranges from the same factory. I found this out working in the outdoor furniture game. The same settings (casual glance) might range in price from say $500 to $1200 retail in Aus. The smart poeple buy the cheaper one and a lot get caught out.

What happens is that once an importer starts to 'negotiate' with the manufacturer about price, the manufacturer is willing to do do deals for a couple of container loads. With furniture they can reduce wall thickness in the extruded tube, use a similar but lighterweight fabric, cheaper or thinner finish coating, rougher welds and poorer dressing etc.

With machinery, they can reduce casting volumes/weight, affecting rigidity, take shortcuts in machining and surface finish and accuracy, use less than optimum hardening techniques and/or not refinish properly afterwards. I have worked with a variety of supplied machine tools in the metalwork area, including saws, drills, mills, lathes, linishers etc and the chinese stuff is never a patch on stuff from the traditional sources. Paint surfaces often aren't sealed against oils and coolants, so after six months industrial use the paintwork looks extremely shabby, after 12 months it's flaking.

My boss bought a lathe from the ebay supplier you mention, about one size downfrom the one in the link. Bedways were not properly hardened and showed wear within 2 years of occasional use, bottom of the bedway was extemely rough and unmachined, so to release the tailstock and move it 150mm you had to release the clamp bolt 4 turns. Tailstock centre sat 0.6mm below spindle centre so it couldn't be used for accurate turning between centres, or even drilling. Three chucks were of extremely questionable quality, not well machined, inaccurate, and poorly hardened jaws that would not grip properly and wore significantly. This was a belt drive unit with three normal speeds on V belts and a low speed speed set (similar to backgearing a Hercus etc) derived with a cog belt system before the V belts. The V belt drive was struggling to carry the motor torque most of the time and had no hope at the lower speeds. The tools supplied with the kit used softish carbide inserts that could only be sourced through the original supplier, so industry standard holders and bits had to be bought to replace the complete set to get reasonable tool life.

There are good oriental machines out in the market place. To locate them, start with guys who have many years experience in supplying all levels of the trades, from $2,000 hobby gear through to the $100,000+ CNC machines. These guys have too much at stake to risk buying a couple of batches of cheapies and offloading them from anonymous auction sites. You might pay 25 to 30 % more for a similar machine than you would with a cheapy version, but you get a warranty, support and parts backup and a better machine, plus the opportunity to examine and test the machine on the showroom floor.

I have recently purchased a 9x20 Lathe from these people, excellent service and a good range starting at 7x14 and going up to really huge machines.

The model I bought is a variable speed one and has a camlock lever on the tailstock rather than the nut.

I am currently in the process of building a drawer base to put it on, hopefully it will go on there this weekend and I will put up some pictures.

Just ask them to send you their catalogue, it is well worth looking through.

Well what great answers already.
I see what you are saying quality but I never thought that the supplier in trying to get there costs down would of course drop there quality, or extra things like hardening of the beds. So saving 500.00 would be very costly I see I wont buy one of them . I did email them and got a reply on frieght costs but non to a question I asked on warranty and if the unit doesnt perform like advertised. I am under the impression if you buy something and it is new that the unit should be made to a satisfactory standard and if not it can be exchanged. For example if the tailstock dosent line up with the headstock I would extpect to be able swap it over as this is not acceptable in my opinion, as this is a basic lathe function.

I am still looking at a used hercus and seen a couple that I will check out during the week. I am keen on a hercus as I gather it would of been a expensive machine in its day, so if I get one in good condition I should have no problems. Is there a easy way to tell if a hercus 9" is metric, si if I look at one I see they have serial numbers which I will check, but if I look at the lathe will the dials say mm? or do I look at the gearbox? for this info. I have no idea sigh. Been trying to find a user manual on line to no avail yet that might help me work out what I am getting, I seen I can buy a new one but that would be pointless if I dont get one lol

Asset plant was also recomended to be my my trade school trainer, he gave me a book last week, and of course I started salivating lol. The trade school down at mount gambier I think he said has just fitted machines from asset and have good results. And the teacher at mount gambier also bought a smaller one for home use and is impressed.
So I see just looking at the pictures and seeing the same specs and similiar looks means nothing as some are made cheap and nasty.
Thanx Guyz
Gene

G'day Gene
Buying a new lathe can be a real headache, there are so many to choose from. It's even so much harder when you're a newbie or have little experience or knowledge of the machines on offer. The following comments are My own thoughts gathered from many years of experience. You said the lathe is for hobby work so that imediately means that you want a lathe with a long cross slide. This cross slide must have "T" slots running across it the same as the Myford Lathe. Without the "T" slots, you will be severly restricted in versatlity and jobs you cant but want to do. My own lathe, a Myford Super 7 with the long bed is extremely versatile because of the "T" slots and long bed (30 inches between centers). After having "T" slots, I would never buy a lathe without them. You must have a lever clamp for the tailstock. This form of clamp is essential when drilling deep holes. There is a special technique to deep hole drilling. I have drilled holes, 9/32 dia x 12 inches deep in stainless steel bars in 20 mins.per hole.
For the home worshop / hobby lathe, forget about carbide tips and carbide tooling. Even if your lathe has an all greared headstock, you dont need carbide tools. These tools are for production machining only. The major problems with carbide are, you dont learn anything about how to shape and form cutting tools, These tools dont have a sharp cutting edge (some do but not as a rule) and a high finish can be difficult to obtain. Carbide is lousey for taking off a two or three thou' cut and wanting a good finish and exact size. Carbide tools are very expensive and can be shattered easily if not set up correctly. I have been using my Myford for about fourty years, have two carbide tools that I have used once for removing the "skin" on some cast iron wheels. I replaced these with High Speed Steel which did a far better job all round.
I am now retired having been a toolmaker/machinist and machining instructor and always used High Speed Steel for the tools. HSS can be perfectly shaped to suit the job, eg. to reduce chatter, produce a mirror finish and make small boring bars and small tools. A high quality cobolt HSS will last out almost as good as carbide but not as fast.
Next, you need a lathe with good imperial graduations and an imperial leadscrew. There is nothing more annoying than screwcutting an imperial thread with a metric leadscrew. It's bad enough to cut a metrc thread on an imperial lathe. To do so without tearing your hair out, you must have a motor that can be reversed and you need a footbrake on the lathe. No footbrake? forget about metric threads!.
Be prepared to spend some dollars on lathe chucks. I have two Burnerd chucks, made in England, and they have been worth their weight in gold. Dont buy cheap Asian chucks, you will certainly regret it. The Myford lathe has a flat bed, definitely get one with a hardened "V" bed. The flat bed has its very good points but a "V" bed is much better. Hope this helps you a bit more (or it might confuse you more).
The best advice I can offer is, keep asking lots of questions before you part with the cash.

Kody

footz

The AL-320G has the power cross-feed and the lever locked tailstock you want. I bought one earlier this year and it's been fine apart from an oil leak from the top of the gearbox (fixed by the supplier under warranty at home).

It's considerably beefier than the AL-60 which will help and being gear-driven it's much more convenient for speed changing. Was there anything specific you wanted to know about the A\L-320G that I could help with?

Have a look at the General Tools website for more information or go out to their premises to have a look.

Rgds - Gavin

You really need to give a price range that you are prepared to spend , otherwise the debate is rather a mute point.
No point in someone telling you all about a great $10 000 lathe if there is no way you will pay that.
A new modern lathe will be a better choice than an old lathe.

Nice I am so glad I have found these forums. All very helpfull answers. I thought I was going to get bagged for asking the simple stuff.

The myford I gather from what I have read is the holy grail in lathes, I see one on ebay
http://cgi.ebay.com.au/Myford-lathe-...QQcmdZViewItem

but it is out of my price range sigh. They do sound like they where made in heaven and all books I have read always rate them high. I think if I get into this hobby in a very big way I will upgrade again in a few years and go a expensive lathe, but at the moment a myford is just a dream. It is a interesting comment about the top slide though and I can see there would be many uses you could use and sadly I see the hercus dosent have one. Does it matter having the t slots going as 2 groves like I see on most asian equipment. I see the myford has them going the other way and a lot of them. Also KODY why is a long top slide a advantage?
I know at trade school we use ordinary hss steel and I get fantastic results there, so I better learn the art of grinding. The kids got me a new 8" bench grinder for fathers day so I will be cursing for a few weeks learning how to sharpen all the drill bits I have abused over the years and change cutting angles for different materials like my dad always did.
Screw cutting I thought would be a metric thing as I thought imperial was finished with over here? (dad would be rolling in the grave at the moment LOL). I have never cut a thread so I have no idea but something I will be doing in night school soon. So the questions will be flying.

Now the al 320g looks to me like a great machine and hearing someone in the forums reply about it is good. I just have this worry that the tailstock will be out of alignment and the slides will stick and be rough. These are fears I have only due to all the reading where people say dont buy this or that. The answer from MALB changed my view though as I see there is a lot of different quality from the same chinese imports that look similiar and buying from http://www.generaltools.com.au/ or http://www.assetplant.com/ seems to be a well recommended investment. If I go new I will be going to one of these types of companies as if I have a warranty issue I would like it seen too.
So here is a question to KODY. Since you have been in the game for ahwile I gather you would have looked at and used lots of machines. What is it that is so good about a myford compared to a chinese lathe. Dumb question I supose and I dont know how to word it properly sigh. But if you had to machine something down on the myford what does it do that makes them the wholy grail of lathes? I gather a good hercus would be similar in that respect, but I just thought a new machine would turn metal smoothly and efficiently like any of the other lathes.
And I gather if a lathe has been used correctly and not done tens of thousands of hours work they would still be good years after they where made?.
I rang about a hercus in adelaide today and will look at it on monday, it has been sitting around for 3 years. Hopefully I will see if it is worth it. I think I better go clean up the old Holmes and see if some one wants it lol. Maybe as concrete filler!
It would be great if you where allowed to try out a machine before you parted with the dollars but unless its someone local you can only go on the add, and few local people would let you turn a piece of steel and show you the machine at there place. And another question who in australia sells new lathes that are not made in asia?. I guess lathes must still be made all around the world?

Thanx again all the info is helping though more questions are arising hehehe
Gene

Ahh sorry I thought I did.I am looking at spending about 2k to have a working machine at home. I seen this one http://cgi.ebay.com.au/ws/eBayISAPI....ayphotohosting

but clearly out of my price range. I thought if I bought s/h for about 1000.00 http://cgi.ebay.com.au/hercus-lathe_...QQcmdZViewItem then spent some money on it or just go and spend 2000.00 and have a brand new machine to use. The AL 320 g here http://www.generaltools.com.au/images/lr11.pdf seems to have everything I could want.I would probably get the stand as well.

And doing some browsing I see you can buy a new myford wow though at a price I can see why I am not looking at one hehe
Cheers
Gene

G'day Gene
The "Top Slide" is the slide that holds the toolpost, it is also called the "Compound Rest". One of the huge advantages of the Myford (and other lathes have this) is the ability to swing the top slide around 360 degrees. The slide is calibrated for the entire movement. This is wonderful when screwcutting internal threads and special machining operations. If I didn't have this 360 deg adjustment I would certainly miss it.
Having a "long" cross slide and equally long travel means you can bolt an Angle Plate (and other special tooling or fixtures) onto the cross slide. This is what the "T" slots are used for. Two "T" slots that run the full length across the cross slide from front to back are are infinitely better than none at all. I made my angle plate from mild steel flat bar, welded it together and machined it on the Myford on the two outer faces and the two ends. I have used the angle plate very regularly to make "T" nuts, drill holes in flat stock, mill slots, bore out 12mm plate to repair my slasher, hold special tools and small parts. What you can do with an angle plate is limited only by your imagination. My angle plate is an "L" shape, it has no webs at the ends or in the middle. The steel I made it from is 16mm thick - it's worth its weight in gold! The dimensions of the A/plate are, 4" high x 3 1/2" wide x 4 3/4" long.

I think what gives the Myford lathe such a great name is the attention to quality in all the small details. The bed is a solid casting and easy to clean. The screws that operate the slides are extremely accurate in pitch and also the graduations on all the dials. The tailstock has an extra long barrel and is fitted with a two start thread. The top slide can be removed very easily and the cross slide then becomes a wonderful table for milling and bolting large parts onto. My lathe has a range of speeds from 25 rpm to 2150 rpm in 18 steps. The main spindle has a tapered bronze front end bearing and two angular contact bearings at the rear. A solid tapered bronze bearing will produce the highest quality finish on precision machined parts.

For more info on machining go to this website. Look for all the construction articles written by me (Kody) and check out how I set up the parts to be machined for the sand yacht. You will also find lots of info on how to sharpen drills.
If you need info on machining dont hesitate to ask on this forum or even feel free to ask me.
good luck.
Joe

http://www.seabreeze.com.au/forums/forum.asp?FORUM_ID=48

footz

My AL320G came with the slides all operating smoothly, the tailstock is in alignment and it all just works "out of the box".

I also looked at buying a second hand lathe - looked for a long while at a Mars lathe from just after the war. The lathe was a beautiful piece of machinery and well kept but it had a few problems and getting/making spares was going to be be an issue.

In the end after talking to a lot of people I decided that if I bought a new chinese lathe and I had issues with it then there would be spares available, dealer support and a commujnity of other users out there to assist. If I bought second hand then there would certainly be others out there with similar lathes but I may well end up having to import parts from OS or would have to make them and there would be no dealer support. In the end I went for the new lathe and thus far haven't been disappointed.

You say that the AL320G is not mentioned nearly as much as the smaller lathes on the various forums, one way of looking at that is that the lathe may not need so much work to bring it up to a useful standard and therefore doesn't generate as much discussion.

When reading the posts decyring the chinese lathes you also need to bear in mind that it's like politics, generally you hear from those with bad experiences, you don't hear from those who are happy, if you are not careful you can get a biased view of the overall user population. Like just about everyone, I'd love to have a high precision lathe like a Myford or similar but the bank balance dictates what I can and can't have.

Where in Adelaide are you located?

Rgds - Gavin

I am a subscriber for a new lathe if you don't know what to look for in a used one (if used is even available)..

With a used lathe, you could be lucky and pick up a near new one or the only ones available might be worn out 50 year old ones, that you will fight all the time trying to hold tolerance at the same time as trying to get a good surface finish..

All small cheaper lathes are made in China simply because of the price...There are still a few manufacturers of small lathes in other countries but they are made to a very high standard and are priced in the tens of thousands..

Guys you have been great. I have learnt more in 2 days then the last few months LOL

And Kody you would be proud of me I read how to sharpen a drill bit , went over my head a bit I must read it a few times but dammit I did sharpen some drill bits !!!!!!!. Mind you they probably are of center but did the job perfectly.

Thanx Gavin , I thought I was being a bit paranoid and the 320 does have all the ticks in the right places. Did you get the stand for it. I have bought a couple things from general tools and found chris down there to be very helful. He has advised against a couple machines but rates the 320 very, very high. They have had no problems with the 320 but others they have stopped selling due to problems, even though they are still listed. I live in athelstone and my crash shop is in gilles plains. Called Holden Hill Crash Repairs. work 8261 3979.

I see a 9" hercus going for about a k in adelaide I will go look at it tomorrow, and see what sort of condition its in. The hercus I have read has a small bore so that turns me off a bit. Otherwise I am going to look at what asset sells and the 320g from general tools. I will just wait a few weeks I think unless a s/hander comes up that appears good. ( as if I would know LOL) . I will save up a little bit more I still have a few things to sort out in the shed with lighting and power. I have been doing it a bit yarder and I think if I get a new lathe I may as well mount it properly and set it up good. If I get a s/h lathe I would end up taking it to bits then repainting it to make it look new, so I wont be turning for awhile anyway!

Cheers all
Gene

If you buy an old lathe you will be very limited in what threads you can cut and how easy and safe it will be to use.
If you have a foot brake it means you can cut a thread that is different to the thread chasing dial fitted to the lathe. IE: If the lathe has a Metric feed screw then you can still cut an Imperial thread easy without disingaging the half nuts by just withdrawing the tool as you hit the foot brake and everything stops. Then reingage in reverse and go back and start again. You can't do that as easy with an old lathe with no instant stop brake.
I AM NOT NOCKING OLD LATHES , IT IS JUST A FACT OF LIFE THAT NEW EQUIPMENT HAS FEATURES THAT OLD EQUIPMENT DOES NOT.
If you own a smash repairs then you should be able to buy it through the business GST free and wholesale and write off the cost against tax.
Get a modern lathe with a quick change gear box and quick change threading gear box also a instant stop foot brake.
Metric or imperial feed screw does not make a lot of difference if it has an instant stop footbrake.
Mine has an Imperial feed screw and cuts metric threads just as accurate as Imperial.
However I still have to do some cog changing for certain ranges of threads more expensive lathes need less cog changing to get the whole range some none . However it is way easier to work out than the cog changing required on an old lathe.
Most people using the old lathes are very experienced machinists that grew up with them and know exactly how to make them sing. A learner is going to find it hard going.
I cut my first thread up to a shoulder about 4 hours after installing my lathe . I had not used a metal lathe since highschool , and yes they were Hercus lathes at school.
JMHO.
Which car would you rather drive a 1960 Holden or a 2008 Holden.

mmm definitely a new HOLDEN. I am not into restorations and I own a crash shop. Good view though on the new versus old. The foot brake idea sounds good but more then I want to spend. I could spend a fortune, but I would like to get a machine that will turn a piece 4" in diameter. Do some thread turning and such. I have always wanted to build a steam engine, seen casting available and its just a crazy thing Id like to do. What I have found so far is that everytime I go to do something I need to make another bracket or something to help me make something. This is turning out to be more fun then making things LOL.

If I get really into this and I find the machine I purchased lacking then I will spend more and sell the one I have.
Thanx
Gene