Thread: Help me Rewire A Motor From Star To Delta and To Connect the VFD in Melbourne

0R7G3 means it is a 3 phase 380V input and 3x 380V output
0R7G2 would mean its a 3 phase 220V input and 3x 220V output (which must be derated if used as 1ph 220V input!!)
0R7G1 would mean it is a 1 phase 220V input and 3x220V output (no derating required for 1ph 220V input)

Personally, I do think it is unlikely there are TWO TYPOS on that nameplate. Either it is an 0R7G2, or there would have to be two typos.

If it is an 0R7G2, the output voltage is 3x220V. A VFD with up-converter (a dual stage inverter) with 220V input and 380V output would cost CONSIDERABLY more $$$.

I would return it for a refund. Let THEM sort out THEIR typos first.

Hi TS,
It looks like Powtran have made a one off VSD and at a great price. I will be interested to see how it performs. I have some experience with Powtran and they have always been helpful and responded to emails promptly. I believe their VFD's to be great value.

Put that motor back together, wire it up and see what happens.

NCArcher - has kindly offered to walk me through the wiring up of the Motor and the VFD via correspondence. I will post back as we progress.

CBA - the manual should just be ignored - it has nothing to do with my custom VFD.

Originally Posted by neksmerj

are you sure the name plate is a typo? Even the manual stipulates input as 230V three phase.

As far as I know, and Stu, there's only one VFD that inputs 240V single phase and outputs 415V three phase.

Stu and I know well as we paid dearly for this feature.

The VFD is a brand name, Teco, modified by Drives Direct in the UK.

http://www.drivesdirect.co.uk/

I could be wrong......

Ken

I have a 5.5 KW Huanyang VFD that takes 240 single phase in and outputs about 415 3 phase, purchased for about $500 12 months ago so there are others out there, a 750 watt unit with the same features was about $200 at the time.

Hi Jayson,

Well it's good to know there are other VFD's out there with 240V single phase input, 415V three phase output.

I'm not sure where you would find 240V three phase, anyway.

When I bought my unit several years ago, it was in excess of $550 including a remote pendant, so I guess we are about line ball.
And that was after a fight to have the UK VAT deducted. What a drama that was.

Ken

TS,

Glad you have managed to get some answers, and perhaps good news. I'm definately tuning into this post to see how you get on. I had not realised a 240v single phase to 415v 3phase VFD was available at that sort of price. Glad NCArcher is going to help you through the process of setting it up ( to him for the offer to help out).

Please do let us know how things go, and if it works out, would it be possible to get contact details for them, as I may go this way with my lathe.

Cheers,

Camo

Originally Posted by thumbsucker

......

CBA - the manual should just be ignored - it has nothing to do with my custom VFD.

I think the VFD you have there is a normal 400V in 0-400V out VFD - but it has beed modified not to trip if the input voltage is 230V+/-10%. Most 400V VFD would trip if the input voltage drops under the 380V-10% mark.

What this means is that you can use it with 240V input to drive a 240V motor. There is no way this VFD can increase the input voltage above the output voltage.

If you hook it up to 240V single phase, you have to derate it according to the manual.

If you hook it up to a 380 or 400V motor, it will work. The motor will run. But it will never deliver its nameplate rating.

Chris

Originally Posted by Jayson

I have a 5.5 KW Huanyang VFD that takes 240 single phase in and outputs about 415 3 phase, purchased for about $500 12 months ago so there are others out there, a 750 watt unit with the same features was about $200 at the time.

what makes you say it delivers 415V?
a delta wound motor is still 3 phase but not 415V..its 240V 3 Ph

Originally Posted by eskimo

what makes you say it delivers 415V?
a delta wound motor is still 3 phase but not 415V..its 240V 3 Ph

The connections and the V are not necessarily related.
I have two motors in my shed that are 415V delta, one is from a compressor and one is from a pump.
They still run on 240 V 3P but at half power and cannot be converted to run at full power on 240 3Ph.
Have yet to see a 240V 3P star connected but I suppose it is possible.

Originally Posted by cba_melbourne

There is no way this VFD can increase the input voltage above the output voltage.

Agreed

Originally Posted by eskimo

what makes you say it delivers 415V?
a delta wound motor is still 3 phase but not 415V..its 240V 3 Ph

I believe most(?) motors above 5hp are star/start delta/run. Or 415V delta if you like.
This doesn't mean the VSD is suppling 415V I have no idea(truth is I haven't even checked my own VSD, though even without testing in any real sense, its pretty clean when you are running a 415V connected motor on 240V)

Stuart

p.s... I think I just said what Bobl did.... again lol

Originally Posted by BobL

Have yet to see a 240V 3P star connected but I suppose it is possible.

There is no VFD manufactured for a single country. It would not be commercially viable. VFD's are invariably made for the world market. That is why manufacturers speak od 100V class, 200V class, and 400V class VFD's (there are higher classes too, but irrelevant here).

Take a single phase 100V VFD, it will work in Japan on their 100V home supply, it will work in the USA on their 110 and 120V supplies, and many other countries in South America and Canada. These VFD's have a voltage doubler input stage, so they can output twice their input voltage and drive a 200V 3ph motor. But they only make these as low HP units, so their input current do not overload a 100V home power outlet.

Take a single phase 200V class VFD, it can run from a wide range of input voltages, typically 200-240V +/-10% (that is 180V to 264V). It will work in Japan on their 200V, it will work in the USA on their 220V (this is 2 times 110V out of phase by 180 degrees from a center tapped roadside transformer, as supplied to some homes over there), it will run in Europe on their 230V, and it will run in Australia on our 240V. And in many other countries too, including Russia and China and India. Think about it, the manufacturer has to make only one single model, and it can be sold all over the world. But the output voltage will never be greater than the input voltage. The VFD can however limit its maximum output voltage to any desired value (from 0 up to its input voltage).

A three phase 400V class VFD will work from 380V to 500V +/-10% input voltage (that is from 342V to 550V), making it again suitable for worlwide use. Its output voltage can again not exceed its input voltage, but it can limit its maximum output voltage to any value.


A similar trend to standardisation can be seen with motors, but motors cannot be made with voltage ranges as wide as VFD's. Motors can be hooked up to a VFD either in star or delta, both will work equally well provided the voltage matches the VFD output. Modern small HP motors are designed with a wide voltage range. A 230V motor will work perfectly well on a VFD with 220 or 240V output. A motor made to run in Japan on 200V will not be happy if run at 240V - it would burn out - it will be necessary to limit the VFD output voltage (simply by setting a parameter in the VFD software). Older motors do not have such wide voltage ranges, and sometimes they cannot be easily hooked up in star because the star point is not wired into the junction box. A motor can however always be run at a lower than its nameplate voltage, it just will not deliver its rated horsepower.


Edit: I am not aware of one single 200V class VFD on the market capable of providing a higher output voltage than its input voltage. There is no mass market for such a VFD, like there is in North America for 100V input 200V output VFD's. Over there, all small 3-phase motors are 220V and most homes only have 110V. In the rest of the world, nearly all small motors can be wired for 230 and 400V, so a 200V class VFD can drive them. And for the few old motors that cannot be hooked up either star or delta the market is too small to make a profit. It is possible for such VFD to be made on order.... for extra money, and not just one off but there would be a minimum order.

G'day thumbsucker,
If after the dust settles it turns out you need to convert your star wound motor to delta and it turns out too difficult to do via remote assistance from NC Archer you are welcome to call around and I can assist or do it for you.
I'm just up the road in Fawkner and have done a couple of these conversions for my own machines (including a Waldown drill press) so just sing out if I can help.
I accept all forms of beer, foreign or domestic as payment.
Cheers,
Greg.

Greg - thank you for the offer, if I cannot get it up and running by the end of the week, I will take you up on the offer.

I am not overly concerned with the technicalities. As long as my VFD allows me to run my 3 Phase motor, even at reduced power I will be happy as long as it performs for my needs. I am strictly a wood worker and have no need to drill metal. So even if I only get 1/2 Horsepower from my 3/4 Horsepower machine then I will be .

Originally Posted by cba_melbourne

There is no VFD manufactured for a single country. It would not be commercially viable. VFD's are invariably made for the world market. That is why manufacturers speak od 100V class, 200V class, and 400V class VFD's (there are higher classes too, but irrelevant here).

Take a single phase 100V VFD, it will work in Japan on their 100V home supply, it will work in the USA on their 110 and 120V supplies, and many other countries in South America and Canada. These VFD's have a voltage doubler input stage, so they can output twice their input voltage and drive a 200V 3ph motor. But they only make these as low HP units, so their input current do not overload a 100V home power outlet.

Take a single phase 200V class VFD, it can run from a wide range of input voltages, typically 200-240V +/-10% (that is 180V to 264V). It will work in Japan on their 200V, it will work in the USA on their 220V (this is 2 times 110V out of phase by 180 degrees from a center tapped roadside transformer, as supplied to some homes over there), it will run in Europe on their 230V, and it will run in Australia on our 240V. And in many other countries too, including Russia and China and India. Think about it, the manufacturer has to make only one single model, and it can be sold all over the world. But the output voltage will never be greater than the input voltage. The VFD can however limit its maximum output voltage to any desired value (from 0 up to its input voltage).

A three phase 400V class VFD will work from 380V to 500V +/-10% input voltage (that is from 342V to 550V), making it again suitable for worlwide use. Its output voltage can again not exceed its input voltage, but it can limit its maximum output voltage to any value.


A similar trend to standardisation can be seen with motors, but motors cannot be made with voltage ranges as wide as VFD's. Motors can be hooked up to a VFD either in star or delta, both will work equally well provided the voltage matches the VFD output. Modern small HP motors are designed with a wide voltage range. A 230V motor will work perfectly well on a VFD with 220 or 240V output. A motor made to run in Japan on 200V will not be happy if run at 240V - it would burn out - it will be necessary to limit the VFD output voltage (simply by setting a parameter in the VFD software). Older motors do not have such wide voltage ranges, and sometimes they cannot be easily hooked up in star because the star point is not wired into the junction box. A motor can however always be run at a lower than its nameplate voltage, it just will not deliver its rated horsepower.


Edit: I am not aware of one single 200V class VFD on the market capable of providing a higher output voltage than its input voltage. There is no mass market for such a VFD, like there is in North America for 100V input 200V output VFD's. Over there, all small 3-phase motors are 220V and most homes only have 110V. In the rest of the world, nearly all small motors can be wired for 230 and 400V, so a 200V class VFD can drive them. And for the few old motors that cannot be hooked up either star or delta the market is too small to make a profit. It is possible for such VFD to be made on order.... for extra money, and not just one off but there would be a minimum order.

I think there is a VFD on the market that not come from China that is 240v in and 415v out 3 phase . it come from UK

Peter