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  1. #1
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    Default HM52 vertical - horizontal mills

    Anyone have one of the HM52G geared head horizontal / vertical mills from Machinery House (and others)
    https://www.machineryhouse.co.nz/M161D
    I really want the horizontal function as well as teh vertical head, and a decent amount of daylight under the vertical head (unlike most horizontals with an addon head on the horizontal spindle). A DRO is nice.
    Home workshop use, but I sometimes do some decent sized projects and don't have a lot of patience for undersized toys. i have a RF30 drill mill and a well used Denbiegh horizontal (WW1 vintage) and a 16" shaper I am still trying to get to grips with.
    Geoff

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    Ueee is offline Blacksmith, Cabinetmaker, Machinist, Messmaker
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    Hi Geoff,
    "don't have a lot of patience for undersized toys"

    Sorry to say but if you have the denbiegh already the HM52 will be like a toy. I had the worst ever* lemon of a HM50, not only was is poorly made but it was extremely lacking in rigidity. There is no way i'd spend that money on that machine. Having said that they make a pretty good drill press.....

    Cheers,
    Ew

    *maybe not the worst ever....but i hope they don't get much worse!
    1915 17"x50" LeBlond heavy duty Lathe, 24" Queen city shaper, 1970's G Vernier FV.3.TO Universal Mill, 1958 Blohm HFS 6 surface grinder, 1942 Rivett 715 Lathe, 14"x40" Antrac Lathe, Startrite H225 Bandsaw, 1949 Hercus Camelback Drill press, 1947 Holbrook C10 Lathe.

  4. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by GJM View Post
    Anyone have one of the HM52G geared head horizontal / vertical mills from Machinery House (and others)
    https://www.machineryhouse.co.nz/M161DGeoff
    Geoff,
    While I have never owned one, I have experienced long term use of a HM52G mill amongst a machine shop (high school) shop full of MH products. In my time in that workshop we had problems with every one of the electrically powered machines.The mill is too lightly built and vibrates and shudders a lot even under moderate load.

    The non student related failures were mainly due to the components on the machines being of below average quality. This was the case for electrical and switch gear.

    The manufacturing assembly had obviously been achieved by drunken neanderthals. When the units had been disassembled by us for repair all too often, many of the shields of the bearing assemblies sported dents and bash marks.. The on board manual oil pump fractured during use. Working fine one day and just fractured across the leverage pivot the next. The shaft for the cross table was corroded badly and appeared it had been assembled that way.

    Almost every gearbox we split had swarf and crap in them.Before any conclusions are jumped too about rough as guts boilermakers attacking innocent machinery,it was not just me doing the maintenance but also a electrical mechanical engineer who does a lot of machinery repair.

    Truly I would look for something else, unless you enjoy the the frustration.

    Grahame

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    Maybe mine was not so bad after all.....

    Ew
    1915 17"x50" LeBlond heavy duty Lathe, 24" Queen city shaper, 1970's G Vernier FV.3.TO Universal Mill, 1958 Blohm HFS 6 surface grinder, 1942 Rivett 715 Lathe, 14"x40" Antrac Lathe, Startrite H225 Bandsaw, 1949 Hercus Camelback Drill press, 1947 Holbrook C10 Lathe.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ueee View Post
    Maybe mine was not so bad after all.....

    Ew
    Grahame ha mentioned issues like this before. In my lathe thread v1, he described the issues with the MH lathes they had. It made me glad that this model was the replacement to take the place of the one I bought. I have my doubts that the boys in the shed out the back would even realise if something was wrong tho, unless it spat something out at them. Just my observation based on their record to date.

    Graham is a good resource for this information lol.

    Dean

  7. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by GJM View Post
    Anyone have one of the HM52G geared head horizontal / vertical mills from Machinery House (and others)
    https://www.machineryhouse.co.nz/M161D
    I really want the horizontal function as well as teh vertical head, and a decent amount of daylight under the vertical head (unlike most horizontals with an addon head on the horizontal spindle). A DRO is nice.
    Home workshop use, but I sometimes do some decent sized projects and don't have a lot of patience for undersized toys. i have a RF30 drill mill and a well used Denbiegh horizontal (WW1 vintage) and a 16" shaper I am still trying to get to grips with.
    Geoff
    I bought one for my crew about 8 years ago. It made a reasonable drill press.

    The vise was a complete POS as well, my main machinist literally threw it in the skip.

    Only time it got used for milling was light work with low precision requirements. We never used the horizontal drive, maybe it would have been OK but nobody felt like finding out.

    OTOH it was a great machine to let the electronics guys use as they couldn't do it much harm - they'd all been threatened with death if holes appeared in the table, other than that nobody cared a lot and it kept them off the good machines.

    My advice is, keep looking and think of building a Frankenmill by mounting a B/port type head on the overarm of a nice, stout horizontal mill to get the extra Z space you need. Or get lucky & buy a Deckel FB2LB.....

    PDW

  8. #7
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    I have the belt drive version, not the geared head version. Maybe I was lucky and got a good one, but I've not had any problems with making it do what I want. I originally bought it because I wanted a machine to do a CNC conversion, and still haven't got around to finishing it. one day...

    Should you decide to buy one, I strongly advise doing a full inspection before delivery, the quality varies between the various makers of the machine, mine is HM52B, with the slot in the quill.. DaveJ has done a superb job on his HM52 and fixed lots of problems, search this forum for his posts... I think he had 2 or 3 mills delivered and returned before he got one he was happy with.

    Just checked the current price... $7,130.. I think I paid about half that.... Would I recommend you buy one..... no, not enthusiastically... not really...

    I think there are better options out there in the second hand market, I'd think quality used Euro machines are likely to be cheaper than the HM52.

    Ray

  9. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by RayG View Post
    I think there are better options out there in the second hand market, I'd think quality used Euro machines are likely to be cheaper than the HM52.
    Hi Ray,

    I thought I found a mill for him.. then I checked his location.
    I've got no idea what the second hand market is like there.

    Stuart

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    Quote Originally Posted by RayG View Post
    Just checked the current price... $7,130.. I think I paid about half that.... Would I recommend you buy one..... no, not enthusiastically... not really...
    I was on their site a day ago looking at the BM30A and thought pricing was right up. Suspicions confirmed..

    2013/03 - prices (inc GST) from HAFCO/Machinery House catalogue:
    HM-50 - $4,345 -> Today: $5,445. That more than 1k price increase!!
    BM-30A - $7,150 -> Today $8,525.
    BM-52VE - $9,845 -> Today $10,725
    BM-70VE - $16,995 -> Today $19,085

    HM46 - $1,749 -> Today $2,035
    Sieg Super X3 - $1,926 -> Today $2,409

    Lathes -
    AL320G - $1,859 -> Today $2,299
    AL335 - $2,750 -> Today $3,399
    Last edited by variant22; 4th July 2014 at 08:56 PM. Reason: Agh - NZ site - Ray called it - changed to reflect AU Site

  11. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dodgy Kiwi Pricing Deleted
    Ok, I've deleted the incorrect prices, so your latest update will now be correct.
    Plus I was confused by the link to the machineryhouse.co.nz site, not realizing it wasn't $A but $NZ... they will price themsleves out of business at that rate.

    Ahhh wait a minute... you are doing the same thing I did, those prices are from the New Zealand web site...

    Ray

  12. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by RayG View Post
    Plus I was confused by the link to the machineryhouse.co.nz site, not realizing it wasn't $A but $NZ... they will price themsleves out of business at that rate.

    Ahhh wait a minute... you are doing the same thing I did, those prices are from the New Zealand web site...

    Ray
    Erk! Ray you got me! Updated to reflect AU reality. Still increased a fair bit. Just not crazy NZ inflation!

  13. #12
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    Hardly great endorsements.

    Expecting some head shaking moments when I pull my little H & F unit down.
    www.lockwoodcanvas.com.au

    I will never be the person who has everything, not when someone keeps inventing so much cool new stuff to buy.

    From an early age my father taught me to wear welding gloves . "Its not to protect your hands son, its to put out the fire when u set yourself alight".

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    Quote Originally Posted by Stustoys View Post
    Hi Ray,

    I thought I found a mill for him.. then I checked his location.
    I've got no idea what the second hand market is like there.

    Stuart
    This one? Milling Machine in Clayton South, VIC | eBay

    Nice looking machine if thats what you want.

    Ew
    1915 17"x50" LeBlond heavy duty Lathe, 24" Queen city shaper, 1970's G Vernier FV.3.TO Universal Mill, 1958 Blohm HFS 6 surface grinder, 1942 Rivett 715 Lathe, 14"x40" Antrac Lathe, Startrite H225 Bandsaw, 1949 Hercus Camelback Drill press, 1947 Holbrook C10 Lathe.

  15. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ueee View Post
    This one? Milling Machine in Clayton South, VIC | eBay

    Nice looking machine if thats what you want.

    Ew
    Nope.....way better than that.. I think............ It was $5k BIN in SA. But I've lost track of it.

    Stuart

    p.s. found it. sure its a little large but he wanted rigid.
    Combination Vertical AND Horizontal Milling Machine EX Tafe | eBay

  16. #15
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    I bought a belt drive HM52 from Hafpos mid 2008, I was apparently lucky and got a reasonably accurate one. That I was lucky is something I've learned since I joined this forum 18 months ago.

    That said, the HM52 lacks rigidity and is only a light duty mill. In steel it can tolerate cutter DOC as recommended by the cutter maker for cutters up to 10mm dia, above 10mm you have to back right off.

    The speed control on the X axis power feed is far too coarse, about 1/2 turn from zero to full speed.

    The HM52 is brilliant as a drill press.

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