Thread: Hulse planer

Might be getting carried away a bit.

I just had a look at the planer I photographed at the Deutsches Museum a while back. The machine is used for demonstrations. The fixings don't look massive, one adjustment bolt for levelling, one as a hold down.

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More here - https://www.woodworkforums.com/showth...22#post1392522

BT

It is after all a smaller planner, don't make it to complicated for yourself.

Given that gravity will probably do a reasonable job of keeping the planer on the ground, would you be better off just blocking up the feet so that they can not move along?

Michael

Thanks everyone for your thoughts.

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Unfortunately the holes in the feet lie under the outer curved section of the legs and you can't drill the holes in situ. They will need to be marked and the planer moved out of the way to be drilled. If I then 'glue' the hold down bolts in place the planer would need to be lifted onto the bolts. Even with the table off the planer still weighs 3.5 tonnes so this positioning would be very difficult.
I like gregs idea of placing an oversize plate under the legs that the hold down bolts could be 'screwed' into and the plate could then be bolted to the concrete with any number of bolts. The concrete could be drilled and the hold down fixtures placed without having to move the planer. The plates would be in the order of 42"x 18"x 1" and with the machine sitting on them they would have a large surface area in contact with the concrete which would make them unlikely to move. Levelling would be done with shims of which I have a large collection of stainless steel shims pieces 6"x6" ranging from a 1/4" to couple thou. As long as the plate didn't extend too far from the edge of the legs so that it becomes a tripping hazard I could see this working. It might even be possible to weld some strips (say 1") to the plate to act as stops to further prevent the machine from moving forward or back.
Given the table weighs about 1 1/2 tonnes plus whatever is on it I could see the whole machine moving a bit if it was not securely bolted down. I can also see that the levelling procedure may need to be repeated at intervals in the future as it seems the slab may be on the 'thin'side.
Any thoughts gratefully accepted.

Mark

Mark can you drill the holes, no particular precision required, position the machine over the drilled holes, then squirt the epoxy in, followed by the stud, then put a washer/nut on the stud just to locate it. Once the epoxy has gone off you can then torque the nut down properly. Of course to remove you'd have to lift it up over the studs, but likely less to be an issue than positioning. I can't recall the specs off the top of my head (Bob no doubt knows them all) but to give you an idea, I seem to recall an 8 mm stud requires a 10 mm hole. I'm not suggesting you use 8 mm stud, but I've used that in the past and 10 mm just comes to mind. The point being that you can wriggle a stud in at a bit of an angle.

I did something similar to the above, but in my case the plates were there simply to locate the studs accurately.

Have been doing some work on the planer. Cleaned away the huge chips and general debris on the bedways. Some wear is evident but generally seems pretty good. Took a bit of work to mark the holes, then move the planer, drill the holes and then move the planer back. Certainly got some practice sharpening masonary drill bits. I really need to make some skates like Richard!
Eventually decided to use adhesive to glue in the threaded studs as it was very difficult to drill the holes accurately enough for placing the Dynabolts.






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Have been leveling the planer. I have a large number of stainless steel squares that I use as shims. They range in thickness from about 0.002" to about 0.250". I think they were used as spacers in transformers.
This is the set up I have used which seems to work reasonably well. Across the bed seems good now (within 0.001"/Ft) but length ways it has a slight tilt from one end to the other. I am assuming that given the way a planer works this should not really be a problem and is not worth chasing. Anyone have any thoughts on this?
Thanks

Mark






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Hi Mark,

Looking good, I'd think that as long as the ways were straight and parallel with each other, a slight tilt lengthwise wouldn't be a problem.

Was there much wear in the ways?

Ray

Originally Posted by RayG

Hi Mark,

Looking good, I'd think that as long as the ways were straight and parallel with each other, a slight tilt lengthwise wouldn't be a problem.

Was there much wear in the ways?

Ray

There definitely is some wear but it is not extreme (especially for a 100yr+ machine). I am not sure how precise planers were even new but once it is back together I will do some cuts and see how accurate they turn out. I think it will not be too bad but if you need high precision ( like Ewens lathe bed) then you can move onto power scraping or slideway grinding after that. I had a chance to play with some slideway grinders recently but I don't have the owners permission to really discuss or show any pictures yet. He was worried about those nosey OH&S types who might troll obscure metalwork forums !! I plan to go back for a few days hopefully and follow a project from setup to finish grinding. He was just starting an enormous lathe bed which he thought would take 3 weeks to complete!! He was very surprised anyone was interested as he said I was the first person in 30 years who had ever shown up and displayed any interest in the art of slideway grinding. He thought that once his last grinder hand retires ( they were all 60+ ) that would be the end of the business. When I go back hopefully I can talk him into me being able to photogragh/video some of it and put it on the forum.

Mark

Hi Mark,

I think that Phil & Marco know a bit about slideway grinding.. There is a thread where a group went down for a demo.. https://www.woodworkforums.com/showth...24#post1541924

The HP Laser can do a straighness of travel measurement. Here is a video we did on the HM52 X axis http://vimeo.com/60152780 That might be handy for measuring where to scrape.

Ray

Hello Mark,

Originally Posted by markgray

Hi Pipeclay thanks for your reply
There are 4 'legs' on the planer 3 have 2 bolt down holes while the end stand has 3 holes. I did consider using Loxtons with threaded rod and levelling nuts but given the significant side way forces as the table reverses I thought it better to have the table securely bolted down.

By gum, that is some big iron there.
Having seen a planer in action I would have thought that the shear loads along the table to be fairly low. In use the table decelerates for quite some time before stopping and then reversing. Now whether this is typical in normal use, I don't know. The one I was watching some years ago only had about half the table length occupied but the workpiece only just cleared the tool post columns. I'm sure that I've seen some formula on the net for calculating loading stresses which might help. Anyway wouldn't the bolt hole size be a guide ?.

My thoughts on leveling are to get it as level as possible so that there is minimum unbalanced load in one direction and that the tool post is truly vertical.

Just my 2p's worth. Watching with great interest.

[QUOTE=RayG;1829445]Hi Mark,

I think that Phil & Marco know a bit about slideway grinding.. There is a thread where a group went down for a demo.. https://www.woodworkforums.com/showth...24#post1541924

Hi Ray,


I knew Phil and Marco were still involved in machine reconditioning. It would be interesting to see how that side of the business is going.
The place I visited said work was rapidly drying up. They tried to increase there workload by buying good used CNC machines themselves and reconditioning them back to new. They found though that by the time they factored in moving machines,pulling them down, returning to original specs, often replacing the control system with something newer and then advertising them and holding them for sale they were barely breaking even and sometimes lost money. As a sign of the times they have taken on an agency for selling large industrial 3D printers and this is the direction they are heading. They also had then usual collection of stories about beautiful but obsolete machines being scrapped ( think SIP jig borers and the like). I don't think they saw a great future for slideway grinding services. Also all there machinery was probably 1960s era and definitely not workcover friendly.

Mark

Originally Posted by markgray

Also all there machinery was probably 1960s era and definitely not workcover friendly.

Mark

Are they all Churchill grinders?

Like this model VB one.. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FYHSqIPwFRU

The bigger VBA models have two heads and are much bigger...

I know I would like a 6ft table model...


There is still a bit of competition in Sydney for slideway grinding..

There is CNC engineering and I have used MTA Support... Plus in the past John Heine advertised slideway grinding.. There may be others as well...

Originally Posted by .RC.

Are they all Churchill grinders?

Like this model VB one.. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FYHSqIPwFRU

The bigger VBA models have two heads and are much bigger...

I know I would like a 6ft table model...


There is still a bit of competition in Sydney for slideway grinding..

There is CNC engineering and I have used MTA Support... Plus in the past John Heine advertised slideway grinding.. There may be others as well...

Hi Richard,

Yep they have Churchills.
The owner said as far as he knew there were only 3 businesses left offering slideway grinding services in Sydney. He felt that the large amount of second hand machines in pretty good condition coming onto the market in recent years had really affected the number of machines that were brought in for reconditioning. Easier to update to a good second hand machine rather than recondition your older machine. Unfortunately he also said that if they closed up there machines would almost certainly be sold to Chinese or Indian companies who would ship them home!!! That was very depressing.
I told him if he ever hears of one coming up for sale to let me know. If I don't want it I will PM you. These machines are massive (5m bed) and would weigh ?10tonne plus and need a huge amount of room. A 6 foot bed would be nice but not sure how many of those would even be in Australia. It would be great if someone on the forum snagged one of those. The owner also told me they reconditioned a small Cholchester lathe for a hobby enthusiast in recent years for a cost of $7000. So I can see why it is easier to just get another machine.

Mark