Thread: Import vs Local DRO costs

Hi Michael,
Must be pretty flash DRO's if they go over $1000.(or at least not bottom dewelers like mine . though it seems to work just fine for what I've used it for so far)
If you mean more that one unit you could buy them separately and stay under $1k including shipping?

Stuart

Not much over, but I've been looking at the magnetic tape versions of DRO's - less likely to be damaged and take up less space. Being new technolgy there doesn't seem to be much discounting going on. The mill also has a relatively odd envelope, so I would need to buy custom scales that will add to the cost.
From what I work out once duty and GST kick in, it adds between $150 and $200 to the price (if you are over $1000). Customs know about the separate parcels thing I suspect, but even if I did the saving would probably go in shipping.

Michael

Michael are you sure this attracts duty? Don't believe the local retailer if they say it does, indeed don't even believe anything other than checking it for yourself. There is a list available of items and whether there is duty payable and how much it is. The whole system was overhauled many years ago, and a rough rule of thumb is to consider if there is a domestic manufacturer. If there is, expect to pay duty, if there isn't, expect no duty. MANY times I have had people try to charge me duty and when I've checked there's been no duty due.

As Stuart suggested, if you can split the packages so each is less than $1K in value you'll also pay no GST.

So assuming both the above, in answer to your question, the difference between local and imported costs will be freight only.

Pete

if separate packages just dont get them shipped at the same time, and definitely separate invoices

Hi Michael
I dont recall seeing a full 3 axis magnetic DRO, mostly single axis ones with remote heads. Though I havent been looking since I got my DRO. Do you have a link?
As I understand the magnetic scales you can cut them down as you please(though don't take my word for it)

As far as customs goes, I wasn't talking about buying a single DRO and splitting it into two parcels, that would be naughty. But there is nothing to stop you buying three DROs separately and getting them shipped separately. After all I don't have to bring in everything I buy from overseas in in one shipment a year. Of course if you lose a discount for not buying them all together or your postage goes to high, that's up to you.

Stuart

Again, I agree with Stuart. I certainly won't condone anything fraudulent in terms of under-declaring value, having it marked as "gift", or any other shonky business. If we're due to pay up then fair is fair and we should all pay our way. However there's nothing to stop people shopping smartly, and absolutely nothing wrong (in my eyes anyway) in making sure anything imported is less than $1K value. They are the rules and so long as Gerry Harvey doesn't have another sook about all the millions he's missing out on ripping off unsuspecting customers, it looks like that's the way it will stay for a while.

Here is the list I was talking about. I think your DRO would fall under item 8466 http://www.customs.gov.au/webdata/re...r84goods_e.pdf but if not here's the full schedule Working tariff 2007 Good luck in wading through it all

Pete

Michael
Pete is dead right about there being no duty, I imported a Tormach Mill last year with no duty, through a customs broker- I told them there was no duty and they made it happen! As per what Pete says if we don't make it you don't pay it!
I imported a power draw bar for the mill recently without a broker, I filled out the forms and emailed them to customs who rang me to check the details.
Customs have a heap of info on the classification of imported goods on their website, it is just a matter of trolling through and finding the closest thing to your item if your item is not listed, just read carefully and don't pick a dutiable item, they don't know what you are talking about anyway!So if they ring and ask you if your item is a such and such- tell them it is. You will be liable for GST though if the item is over 1000 AUD and can only claim that back if you are in business.
Will
Pete put the list up already, bear in mind that a lot of more modern stuff is probably not in the list, which is the reason I suggest finding the closest non dutiable item.

Originally Posted by Michael G

I'm pricing up DRO units at the moment and want to compare local prices vs imports. Has anyone imported one recently and can tell me the import add ons (duty, GST? and so on) that have to be factored in? At the moment for a similar system the locally sourced unit is around 30% more but I suspect that with the applicable texes etc applied the difference will be far smaller - but how much I don't know.

Michael

I bought an expensive DRO last year and the seller thoughtfully billed and shipped the head and scales separately, thus no fees. As it turns out that's one of the legitimate ways that they price/sell them, so no shonky performed.

Poke around this site
Magnetic Linear Encoders
(this page is for the magnetic scales)
Also
Electronica
Dropros only wants to sell a kit though - the UK site is much more open to the idea of selling components.
One answer I haven't been able to find (yet) is whether this style of magnetic scale will plug into any old display - if that were the case, buying the scales would be a first step and then perhaps an ebay display, as the glass scales seem to be the most breakable bit of the kit.
These scales are very interesting as they are thin enough that they could be put on a cross slide without having to worry too much about them interfering/ being damaged with the tailstock.

Michael

Pete,
I think you are right - section 8466 looks to be the one

Hi Michael,
I wrote this up on another forum, so I am just pasting it here to save re writing it.

My preferences are Meister and Sino off ebay, you can get a 2 axis for around $420 posted (around 7 days)and 3 axis for around $550 posted (same 7 days).
I have bought 2 Meister's years ago and have a Sino and I am happy with them all. I have also never heard a bad word about either seller in all the years they have been selling. If you worried about sending your money, paypal looks after you and you can get a refund no problems at all, but you wont need it as these guys have a great reputation.

The Sino is a multi machine DRO, so you can set it in lathe mode on the mill to set angle up accurately using the taper function. Both readouts do all the things others do and to get any more gadgets (not needed) you will have to step up to the newer Newell's etc. Things like Bolt hole circle, ark machining, holes in a strait line, diagonal line, etc etc are all in them.

I have not heard a bad word said about the DRO Pro's either, but they are more expensive for the same thing, that probably comes out of the same factory with a different name on them. The same goes for Grizzly, just more expensive.

If you where going to put it on a lathe I would have recommended a Sino as he will up grade to slim line scales for around $20 per axis and will also up grade to 0.001mm scales for another $20 per axis, DRO Pro's want $50 extra for 0.001mm scales, but on a mill 0.005mm will be fine.

Personally I would go for the 3 axis on a mill, why have a DRO on the table, but have to set the depth by dial, you would soon wish you had got the 3 axis.
Most people put a caliper style scale on the quill, but I bought an extra scale and swap it over depending on the job, but it will cost around $150 for the extra scale.

To this day I have never had a problem with any of my readouts or scales, the electronics are that advanced I doubt I ever will.

Now as for magnetic scales, have you checked there accuracy? Machine DRO UK have a chart on their website that shows the magnetic to be far lower accuracy than glass scales. Going by the chart below from them states the magnetic scale are plus or minus 0.015mm compared to a maximum of 0.01 mm for a 1 meter long glass scale.
0.015 on a lathe will turn into 0.03mm on diameter which is close to being in cheap caliper territory only at at a much higher price.

I see on the Meister and Sino web sites state theirs are ±0.005 mm at 20 degrees, so I am not sure why DRO UK are more.

As for the DRO pro's magnetic, that don't state their accuracy only their resolution so I cant comment on them, but going by the UK one I would be asking before buying.

If it was me and I was buying again today, I would just go with the Sino with a slim line scale for the cross slide on the lathe and get 0.001mm scales for everything at only $20 an axis more. It's not really needed but it wouldn't hurt either.
The glass scale are a lot more robust than people make them out to be. I hear a lot of people saying they are not immune to chips, coolant etc, but if they are mounted right (facing down) they are fine.

If you buy off either of the sellers above I don't think it is any cheaper to buy 2 shipped together, so just buy them on different invoices.

Dave

PS
The comparison test can be found in the link below. Click on linear encoder comparison PDF down the page, then scroll to the bottom of the page of the PDF.
Magnetic Linear Encoder Reading Head - 25 Micron Resolution

Hi Michael, I started replying to this hours ago, LOL
I have seen on a lot of forums about people going to magnetic scales over glass because it is supposed to be smaller and more compact in size, so to put my thoughts across I just spent a heap of time compiling all the info ( if you see any errors in the picture I drew please let me know in the next 24 hours so I can still edit them) but I did double check it.

If you have a look at my picture below you will see the standard arrangement for installing both types of scales to a cross slide.
The magnetic scales from both DRO pros or DRO UK are wider than glass, taking up more tail stock room than the slimline glass scales that they both sell.

The hight of the DRO pros magnetic scale is almost 28mm high (27.94), where the DRO UK glass scale is only 20mm high, so even allowing 2.6mm for the scale cover, it is a lot smaller meaning less chance of it sticking up higher the cross slide.
Even using the UK tape only installation method without a backing plate, it is still wider than the UK slimline glass scale.
If the magnetic scale was turned so the reader head was underneath, it would still be as wide or wider in some cases than the glass scale models. Having it that way you are then back to a glass scale arrangement but needing to add an angle to mount it as well.

The DRO UK scales are Sino scales with Sino part numbers, so if you where to order a Sino off ebay this is what you would get as well.

I notice a lot of magnetic scale sellers show the comparison between the two types of scales, but with the glass scale the wrong way for a cross slide installation. Like in this picture below. The glass one should be standing up to be a fair comparison as they are showing the width of the magnetic one. But that would show the glass as winning the argument being only 21.5mm over 31mm wide.



Also I don't fully believe the magnetic are immune to everything, what happens when chips get caught between the reader head and the scale, and then get dragged backward and forward damaging the tape. If chips fall on a glass scale cover they do no damage at all because the reader head is underneath out of the way.

So by the look of what they have stated, the magnetic scales are less accurate than glass scales and larger in size for cross slide applications. As for more durability, there is the point about swarf scratching the tape, but without owning one I cant say.
I have never had a problem with my glass ones in all these years, and the only ones I have heard about failing are the ones that have been heavily abused in commercial applications.In a home shop they will last a life time.

It's entirely up to you, but I thought I would put these points across. I have had them in my head for a while now after seeing the magnetic ones come out and comparing the two. Hopefully they will help someone choosing a DRO system as the sellers are misleading in some areas.

Dave

PS
I also converted the DRO pros magnetic scale over to metric below.

Dave, you're a wonder!
Although I mentioned the cross slide and the tailstock I am looking at the mill at the moment (mainly because it's metric and everything else is imperial). However, the same compactness applies.
The dimension that most caught my eye with the magnetic scales is the thickness of the scale without the reader - whether on the cross slide or the mill table I would mount the reader head offset from the line of the spindle so that I have maximum clearance. I've attached a sketch with a bird's eye view to show this -
Attachment 189880
My key concern is not the amount the scale goes 'down' which with a glass scale is the the 54mm in the photo you posted but the amount it protrudes out. The table on the mill is universal so ideally I want a scale that is as thin as possible so that I don't have to worry about hearing a crunch when the table is swung over. Similarly with the lathe a really thin scale means that I can a) not have to worry about ramming the slide with the tail stock and b) still mount the travelling steady on the cross slide (it's a bridge type).
I plan to make up some wooden mock ups to test clearance in these circumstances and if I can find pin diagrams for the various scales I can possibly buy a Sino rig but fit a magnetic scale to the critical axis - as you point out I may lose slightly on accuracy but if I'm trying to machine down to the limits that the makers are typically quoting I should be using micrometers to cross check anyway.
For me the key advantages of a DRO on a machine are

• dual measurement display/ conversion,
• keeping track of position when it is greater than a hand wheel revolution (that is, if I want a slot that is 57.3mm long, I don't have to count 11 revolutions and a bit)
• ease of relative and absolute dimensioning, and
• reducing concerns about backlash

Michael

Hi,
I have a universal table as well and this was my fix after the factory fitted the scale on the rear on this machine.
https://www.woodworkforums.com/f65/in...0-52-a-115786/

With your mill diagram you would need to have the scale hanging off the side of the table, because when the axis is in the centre, the reader needs to be as well, o.
Depending on your lathe set up you might need to hang it off the back a bit as well, or close to it depending on the scale length, but I see your way of thinking.

Making up a dummy set up is a good idea and a lot more should do it, because I read about them ordering the wrong sizes. If you travel is only say 400mm, they think you need to order 400mm travel or 400mm long, but you can buy a scale to match the length of the table which might be a 600mm travel scale and no harm is done as long as it doesn't get in the way of anything.

Dave

I forgot to add that no matter which way you go you will need a bumper to stop the tail stock hitting the scale.
I fitted an extended bolt in the tail stock wiper with a rubber cap on it, but someone posted a picture of a lathe other week that had a factory taped bolt into the saddle that does the same thing in reverse.

Dave