Thread: Keeping up with the Jones

Originally Posted by Ueee

Looks much better than the red, thats for sure. Can i ask where you got it, looks like a nice handwheel, the one i put on the C10's tailstock was supposed to be 4" but i gave up trying to find one and used a 5" i had.

One thing i must say-WELL DONE! you managed to get something from Tony Griffiths. Despite my collection of machines the man has never replied to a single email of mine. I must have sent 5 or 6 over the last 5 or 6 years.

Ew

Me too Ewan despite some rare little beasties here,no replies from the said site owner.
Seems that'' the oh you colonials'' what now? 5 or 6 of my emails too have been ignored despite sending details of some appealing rarities not seen on that site.
I wonder? Then I see that prompt replies are returned.
Well guess what the ''empire strikes back by having some gear here that some of our people have preserved and not scrapped.Lots have been but the vast hinterlands always seem to bring a new'' rarie'' to light in Aus.
After all we are here to benefit from the collective wealth of knowledge,skills and trade experience and help to the ''newbies ''to the art of ''taking off metal''.
I for one have never been closeted or conceited with the skills I have aquired and always ready to help.I respect all opinions offered good or bad with out taking any side.After all to quote Clint Eastwood in Dirty Harry ''opinions are like a.... holes every one's got one.
so on that note will retire to my shell and wait for another day. Cheers all John.

Originally Posted by j.ashburn

Me too Ewan despite some rare little beasties here,no replies from the said site owner.
.

He usually replies to my queries but lately he has not done so . I give him a huge well done for his web site

Originally Posted by Anorak Bob

I was talking with Bruce on the weekend and he said you are minus the tailstock. I thought no big deal, just carve one out of a block of cast. Then I looked at the photos...

Prophetic words from Bob - I've spent the last few weekends (amongst other things) recreating some of the attachments while trying out some of my newly developed wood carving skills. I've never done any serious pattern making so tomorrow these are going to a foundry to be critiqued. The biggest problem was trying to work out the parting lines.
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The hatched area indicates the areas that need to be removed once cast. The piece in the foreground is a dresser (a machined holder for the diamond goes on top). In the background is a pattern for the tailstock. These are both based on numerous photos and scaling from any pictures that stand still long enough. This is the second version of the dresser pattern and the third of the tailstock. Even then the tailstock has had some bits of wood glued on when I realised I'd mucked up the draft in a couple of spots.

Chris found the article that I was looking for and I'm glad that he did. It has a couple of photos of the underside of the countershaft assembly. All food for thought, especially the drums at the front for driving the headstock

countershaft (Large).jpg

Lastly, some new arrivals. I chanced on some genuine parts for the machine and have had a nervous few weeks waiting for them to arrive. On the left is a 2 point steady (missing the bottom jaw) and on the right a radius dressing device (missing the setting bar and diamond), capable of doing internal and external radii. These machines only had around 6 or so accessories with them, so I'm on the way.

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Still to be made is a pattern for a 3 point steady and then the challenging ones - a live centre headstock and the internal grinding workhead. Once working under power I would like to be able to use the machine to do plug gauges and tapers (internal and external) so I'll need those but that's getting ahead of myself.

Michael

Michael do you have any experience using a cyl grinder?

So ignore this if you already know it... But the one of mine which I believe is a pretty standard feature on the work head of cyl grinders is the headstock centre can be set to be either dead and there is a rotating part on the OD of it, or the centre can be set so it is live... I usually use mine set as dead, plus the drive pulls the work (drive dog), does not push it, or so the book says

Originally Posted by .RC.

... the one of mine which I believe is a pretty standard feature on the work head of cyl grinders is the headstock centre can be set to be either dead and there is a rotating part on the OD of it, or the centre can be set so it is live.

This one is a little different, possibly due to size. The one piece I did get with the grinder was a dead centre work head. The live centre head is different again. The DCH (LH pic) is fine for shafts etc but if I want to grind internals or larger angles I will need a LCH (RH pic). It will also take a small 3 or 4 jaw chuck. The biggest challenge with the LCH is getting the internals right.
jones_shipman31.jpg jones_shipman27.jpg
The lidded cavity at the back is for lubrication, as there are plain bearings in there along with adjustment mechanisms and who knows what else.

Michael

Originally Posted by Michael G

This one is a little different, possibly due to size. The one piece I did get with the grinder was a dead centre work head. The live centre head is different again. The DCH (LH pic) is fine for shafts etc but if I want to grind internals or larger angles I will need a LCH (RH pic). It will also take a small 3 or 4 jaw chuck. The biggest challenge with the LCH is getting the internals right.



Michael

I would think a live centre head be pretty simple... Easiest way would be to copy a motorised workhead off a TC grinder... I would use a set of matched P4 DU type angular contacts, just use ebay to get a cheap surplus set...

Michael what foundry you going with ?

Originally Posted by twopintsplease

Michael what foundry you going with ?

I'm giving Castech a go

Originally Posted by .RC.

Easiest way would be to copy a motorised workhead off a TC grinder... I would use a set of matched P4 DU type angular contacts, just use ebay to get a cheap surplus set...

It would and I may have to go that way but at the moment I'd like to be as close as possible to original intent as I can. As the machine as built was capable of grinding to 1/10ths, I'm not sure a change to rolling element bearings is a "must have" improvement

Michael

Originally Posted by Michael G

As the machine as built was capable of grinding to 1/10ths, I'm not sure a change to rolling element bearings is a "must have" improvement

Michael

My 10EE with largish P5 (so more runout then p4 class by a smidgen) class angular contacts has a measured runout of less then 0.0001"

smaller bearings should have less runout...

One of my UK contacts came through with a few photos the other day that I thought I'd share.
The first couple are of the countershaft arrangement. The first photo is from the back, so the 1" drive belt from the motor is the closest to the camera on the right. There is then a V belt on each end of the shaft to transfer the power to the wheel head and to the work head. The Wheel head shaft can also be seen in the first photo. The second photo is from the front showing the drum set up to drive the work head (the V belts for the drum are in the LHS of the assembly). The driven drum is behind the two rollers that can be seen which are just there to provide tension on the belt. The lever with black knob is a clutch so that the work drive can be disconnected while leaving the wheel running. I haven't talked myself out of making up a set up like this as I can't think of a neat way to transfer power to the work head. The work head itself is only about the size of a softball, so perching a motor on top risks dwarfing the lot.
001 (Medium).JPG 003 (Medium).JPG

The next couple are of the tailstock. Some posts back I asked if anyone could suggest how a tailstock with a prismatic section would work. These are some photos of the inside of the tailstock showing that feature. I was imagining things with springs and shims so the reality is a lot simpler. I should be able to use the wedge shaped piece from my tailstock casting for the slider on the inside. Of course the next big question is how to (accurately) hold the little beggar. The current thought is to make up a mandrel that will fit into the 0MT socket and then use that so that the sides can be machined parallel with the axis of the socket. The spring in the end is for providing pressure on the work, with the knurled knob allowing the pressure to be dialed back when necessary.

010 (Medium).JPG 012 (Medium).JPG

Michael

On edit: I just got an email back from Jones and Shipman following an appeal in the (UK) local paper. Build date is put at 1949. No spitfire parts on this machine.

Hi Michael,

Doesn't that still leave you with a spare belt?
I assume the loose one of the left of the second picture..
Or have I missed something again?

Stuart

Not 100% sure but I think the loose belt shown in the picture is for the internal grinding head. The biggest design flaw in this grinder is that the belts are endless and captive - to swap from internal grinding to external requires another part but it also has to have the belt attached.

Michael

Now that the SG is in a usable condition I can recommence work on the J&S. Today's task was minor in the scheme of things but at the same time a necessary step.
The table of the J&S has an odd way of clamping - sort of like a T slot at 45 degrees. As that is the locating feature for most of these accessories I thought to make things easy for me I'd make up a dummy section. The steel blank was roughed on the mill and then put on the SG to finish. Very pleased with that as the block came out with sides parallel to a 10th. After that I drilled a couple of holes in it and mounted it to a sine table for milling the slot.
The sine table was on ebay some time ago and was commented on by a couple of members. It's ex Regency TAFE and looks not to have been anywhere near students. Apart from some identification markings and some staining from the cardboard box it looks like it has never been used. I think with the advent of CNC no one thinks it necessary to train machinists how to use some of this kit...
It is around 25kg and a wonderfully solid accessory. Sadly it is a metric sine and my slips are imperial so I had to get a metric set of slips (I really didn't want to but...). Strange as it may seem, the US seems to be the place to go for metric gear, simply because there is so little interest from their population. I found a grade 3 Mitutoyo set (complete in box), 49 piece with blocks to 100mm for US$99

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Once I'd worked out which was the datum edge on the table, the milling was very straight forward. I did discover what happens to plastic tubes that get too near t slot cutters though.
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The finished section, ready for use
P1020610 (Medium).JPG

Michael

Michael
Nice work, & a very practical & useful Sine Table.
You were very fortunate to get hold of it.
I am sure it will give a lot of useful service.
regards
Bruce