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Thread: Keeping up with the Jones
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15th September 2014, 08:20 AM #31Philomath in training
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An aside -
At one stage I was wondering whether I should measure it with a view to drawing up plans if members want to cast them up. Any interest in that? (the finished unit weighs 23kg according to the box so shipping finished casting around may not be cost effective - although patterns perhaps would be). My mill table is 9 1/4" wide from memory and the sine table fits nicely (sine working area is 12" long by 8" wide). Would a scaled down version be more useful to others?
Michael
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15th September 2014 08:20 AM # ADSGoogle Adsense Advertisement
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16th September 2014, 04:33 AM #32.
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16th September 2014, 11:54 AM #33SENIOR MEMBER
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Might be interesting though I have a 16" x 6" tilting angle plate I made the patterns for and had cast many years ago so I'm not sure if I'd ever need it. I'd want one full size though as it'd fit on all my mills. Getting the castings done isn't a drama but a set would run to at least $300 plus freight, possibly more. No way of knowing without asking the foundry. PDW
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16th September 2014, 03:28 PM #34Intermediate Member
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The "odd" angled slot arrangement is common to most cylindrical grinders. You will notice that all the J & S attachments such as tailstock, steadies etc have a vertical sectioned base which aligns with the front edge of the table. The angled 'T" bolt simply pulls this firmly into this alignment face at the same time clamping the attachment to the surface of the table.
One of the things which should be drummed into the user of a cylindrical grinder is the absolute no no of sliding any attachment along the table instead of lifting it clear, cleaning very thoroughly the area it is to be placed then placing it carefully without sliding before clamping. Not only does grinding dust get under the sole of the attachment but it also gets on the vertical face of the table. Sliding things along rapidly creates wear.
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22nd February 2015, 09:09 PM #35Philomath in training
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I looked back and noticed that I haven't really done anything since September last year. Bit slack of me really but I've had a few interruptions.
One of the noticeable parts missing was the oilers.These sit either side of the spindle belt housing as can be in this photo of (someone else's) machine.
jones_shipman26.jpg
Originally I though "easy - I can just buy a couple" but looking around and even talking to Phil, they are not something that is easy to find - partly because it had to pick up on the existing thread (1/8" BSP) and partly because the guard was so close. Eventually I managed to find a pair that had the right thread but were too large - they were 1 1/4" and I had to be around 1".
P1020812 (Medium).JPG
The plan was to remake the top and bottom parts on the reservoir, replace the glass and things would be fine. Sounds easy but I think these must have come from Murphy Manufacturing Co, as there were lots of attempts to derail that rather simple plan.
Firstly, the glass. Everybody seems to have gone metric since this grinder was made (alright - that was 1949 but...). Finding some inch diameter glass tube and getting two pieces cut was a hell of a job. Eventually I had to settle for a 26mm OD. Even then people wanted to sell me 2m minimum.
The top and bottom pieces on the original drippers were pressed from sheet. Not wanting to start on press tooling I kicked this around and eventually I stumbled on a piece of brass rod with a diameter big enough so decided to machine them. These are not flat parts but have some form to them (think jam jar lid with a flat dome on top), so that meant grinding some tools with the appropriate form. Plunging a tool in from the outside and hoping that you don't meet the cavity that you just cut from the inside does take some getting used to - you know the dials say that they won't meet but even so.
To hold the parts for finishing was tricky too. It needed to be a small chuck because the ID was only 26mm. My smallest is a three jaw and will hold that size part internally but will it be concentric? My answer was to use a 4 jaw.
P1020813 (Medium).JPG
Once the parts were made they had to be fitted. The top pieces just located but the bottom pieces were peened onto the valve seat. I was sure the seller's ad said solid brass construction but when removing the existing - apparently not.
P1020814 (Medium).JPG
Once the steel was removed I annealed the brass, folded it back, put on the new base and peened it back. At least, that's how it worked for the first one. The second one had the peened ring break just at the material removal stage. Lots of loctite.
However, it all went together. The first photo shows the new next to the old and the next shows the new trial fitted to the grinder (around 1mm clearance to the casting). I don't know what caused the ghosting in the photo - I would have said I moved the camera but the non-brass bit does not seem blurred. I need to put some sealing or gasket material in there but at least I can start on the power train stuff without worrying about stuffing bearings
P1020817 (Medium).JPG P1020815 (Medium).JPG
Michael
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22nd February 2015, 10:40 PM #36GOLD MEMBER
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Nice work Michael, if you find that too much oil is being used, let me know, as I've an article on modifying the taper that will help fix that.
Kryn
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23rd February 2015, 06:57 AM #37SENIOR MEMBER
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Outstanding work Michael.
Cork is normally used as the gasket material. I have plenty if you need it.
Phil
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23rd February 2015, 08:18 AM #38GOLD MEMBER
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Nice work on the oiler Michael. Haven't done anything since last September? You need to pull your finger out. You don't see me laying around idle with unfinished projects……. Take a hard look at yourself!
SimonGirl, I don't wanna know about your mild-mannered alter ego or anything like that." I mean, you tell me you're, uh, super-mega-ultra-lightning babe? That's all right with me. I'm good. I'm good.
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23rd February 2015, 03:38 PM #39.
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Nice tricky work as usual Michael.
I like the three into four method of workholding. One to keep in the back of my mind.
Thank you,
Bob.
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23rd February 2015, 06:44 PM #40Philomath in training
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Thanks Phil. I was planning on "recycling" some small cylindrical pieces of cork that seem to accumulate.
What was that Simon? I didn't hear you properly - probably from the noise of a folder in the background furiously bending up drip trays for a surface grinder...
Michael
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25th March 2015, 08:48 PM #41Philomath in training
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Seeing the need to spring into action I've started doing the supports for the J&S overhead shafting. Possibly to no one's surprise I've started before nutting out the fine detail. I have some photos of how the originals were arranged and am trying to keep things along similar lines. One issue I do have is securing pulleys on shafts, particularly those that are between spans. There are some photos of an original in this post - https://www.woodworkforums.com/showth...09#post1793009
The simplest way I can think of of securing these pulleys is using a taper bush in an arrangement like this
pulley lock.jpg
The shaft is 20mm diameter, the Al pulley will be roughly 25mm wide and either 190 or 240mm diameter. For those who have not recognised the basic shape of my taper bush, I was intending to use an ER32 collet as they are available in their cheapest versions for around $10. Anyone got any better ideas that will not cost a fortune? Should I extend my front clamping flange and incorporate a short keyway?
Michael
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25th March 2015, 09:54 PM #42SENIOR MEMBER
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Hi Michael, one industry solution would be to use a TaperLock. They come in various flavours, some of which you machine the hub of the pulley to suit the taper of the Taper Lock, and others which come with a pre-machined centre which accepts the Taper Lock, and you weld into the hub of the pulley you wish to fasten to the shaft. This link is to Fenner who make the Taper Locks, and better explains what I'm waffling on about, http://www.fptgroup.com/fenner.asp?t...es&pageid=2668 and this link is to an eBay listing of a potentially suitable Taper Lock. It is a little more expensive than your $10 collet, but not much more. I hope this is some help, http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/TAPER-BUS...item2338306034
Rob
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26th March 2015, 12:29 AM #43.
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Michael,
Hercus located and fixed the countershaft pulleys on my 9 inch lathes by means of a locally flatted shaft and a grubscrew. You could easily create an offset hub in the pulley by counterboring the pulley and Loctite-ing in place a bored sleeve of aluminium to suit. I repaired a damaged motor pulley on the garden shed Waldown in a similar fashion. Loctite's Super Bearing Mount can work wonders.
Bob.
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26th March 2015, 07:03 AM #44Philomath in training
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I had thought about grub screws but was not happy with the idea of having the mating thread in an Al pulley; the other issue was having to have a longer boss on the part (extra material cost). For a small pulley that would not worry me as much but the diameter of these is such that I want to make sure these are going to be mounted without a chance of wobble or chewing out threads/ keyways.
However, your suggestion of a bored sleeve is a good one and I could easily incorporate a steel hub which would be both more durable and replaceable if necessary.
Using a collet as a taper bush was my cheap alternative to a commercial taper lock hub. I like the idea (of the commercial unit) but don't want to fork out lots rebuilding a machine that in reality will only be used occasionally. I also thought the ER collet would be more compact.
More to think about.
Michael
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26th March 2015, 07:52 AM #45Intermediate Member
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Bushs.
Try looking up Bi-fit pullies , cheap and effective and a bloke with your talents could make his own bushes.
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