Thread: Lathe Buying Advice - C6 vs AL250G

I bought a 250G when H&F first introduced them - couldn't get rid of it fast enough: noisy, faulty capacitors, underpowered motor, only cuts metric threads, very poorly made, gearbox required stripping and a little fiddling to get it to change properly, same for the headstock. On the plus side it is a little beefier than the C6, has a 25mm spindle bore (C6 has 20mm), oil bath apron, no fiddling with gear trains for auto feed or thread cutting, no fiddling with belts to change speeds. Quite a few 250Gs turned up on the 2nd hand market not long after they were introduced. Another forum member had a catastrophic capacitor failure on his 250G; from memory, I think he returned it and got a refund.

Take this for what its worth.

I haven't seen the C6 or the AL250g in the flesh, but I did look at an AL50g at the local Nubco. I had a bit of a play with the AL50g and I was pretty unimpressed in it. It just looked cheap and felt cheap. I wouldn't buy one.

Might not be what you want to hear but I'd look at finding a used Hercus 9a. Being you are in Melbourne it shouldn't be hard to find one and it will cost you less than the Chinese machine will new. I lucked into a Hercus 9a when I was considering buying one of the lathes you are considering or something similar, and yes it cost me less but I feel like I got a much better lathe and I am GLAD I ended up with the Hercus. I don't have much bad to say about the Hercus for what the are, as as a hobby lathe I think they are hard to beat in my limited experience.

If I was buying another lathe, I wouldn't consider anything without:

-a quick change gearbox
-power longitudinal feed (and crossfeed is nice as well)
-imperial if you do any gunsmithing

When I was looking I would have taken anything that came up at a reasonable price and would have accepted change gears if that was the only option. By chance I got the Model A which has the gear box and powerfeeds. Now having used a lathe, I'd consider those essential. Metric/imperial - really its just numbers when it comes to cutting something to size and a digital caliper will do your calculations for you, but if you want to some gunsmithing its pretty much all imperial and an imperial lathe will be easier to work with.

I wouldn't ever go to anything with change gears. Its not just thread cutting, the gears set your powerfeed rate too (at least on a Hercus). I just couldn't be bothered with changing gears - honestly. With a quick change gearbox pick a feed rate - click, click - cut. If its too slow or two fast - click, click - fixed. With gears you are kidding yourself if you think you'll just change them around.

So, just my thoughts but I've just had my first taste of chinese machines in a small mill I bought. Won't go there again .

Originally Posted by Hornetb

Might not be what you want to hear but I'd look at finding a used Hercus 9a. Being you are in Melbourne it shouldn't be hard to find one and it will cost you less than the Chinese machine will new. I lucked into a Hercus 9a when I was considering buying one of the lathes you are considering or something similar, and yes it cost me less but I feel like I got a much better lathe and I am GLAD I ended up with the Hercus. I don't have much bad to say about the Hercus for what the are, as as a hobby lathe I think they are hard to beat in my limited experience.

I would not consider buying a new machine again, unless i won the lottery and i could buy a new monarch or somesuch.....

There are so many 2nd hand machines available, you just need to keep a look out and know what too look for. That may be the hardest thing, knowing what to look for-but anything with a QCGB and power cross feed is a pretty safe bet, so long as the bed is not too worn.

Ew

Originally Posted by Ueee

I would not consider buying a new machine again, unless i won the lottery and i could buy a new monarch or somesuch.....

There are so many 2nd hand machines available, you just need to keep a look out and know what too look for. That may be the hardest thing, knowing what to look for-but anything with a QCGB and power cross feed is a pretty safe bet, so long as the bed is not too worn.

Ew

I tend to agree with you both. BUT, I only agree with you because I have got some experience under my belt using such machines, knowing their limitations and to some extent know what to look for in a SH machine. None of the above mentioned skills or experience I had when I first started out, hence the reason why people like myself and many others buy a new cheaper Chinese machine over a potentially good SH one. Most newbies simply don't have the confidence or the skills to make an informed decision. At least if they buy new, they have some support.

Unless you know what to look for (which usually comes with some experience), the whole SH market can be a potential nightmare!

Not withstanding the above, I'm tending to look more and more at SH machines now too. My last 2 machine purchases have been both over 40 years old. Would I have had the balls to do that 3 years ago? No way!

Simon

As a first lathe I don't think you can go past Chinese simply because they are ready to go straight out of the box. Sure you might have to do a little fiddling (particularly if you buy an AL-250G, but when it comes time to move on to a better machine (and you will), they're easy to get rid of and hold their value well so the loss will be minimal. As already mentioned if you want to buy other than Chinese you really have to know what to look for, it's not something for the novice. Once you gain a little experience and know what you want the lathe for you'll be better placed to decide which way to go - Chinese or other. There are Chinese lathes and then there are Chinese lathes, not all are created equal: My current Chinese lathe needed no fiddling at all straight out of the box, the quality is excellent and it is a joy to use - unlike it's predecessor the AL-250G

Originally Posted by th62

As a first lathe I don't think you can go past Chinese simply because they are ready to go straight out of the box. Sure you might have to do a little fiddling (particularly if you buy an AL-250G, but when it comes time to move on to a better machine (and you will), they're easy to get rid of and hold their value well so the loss will be minimal. As already mentioned if you want to buy other than Chinese you really have to know what to look for, it's not something for the novice. Once you gain a little experience and know what you want the lathe for you'll be better placed to decide which way to go - Chinese or other. There are Chinese lathes and then there are Chinese lathes, not all are created equal: My current Chinese lathe needed no fiddling at all straight out of the box, the quality is excellent and it is a joy to use - unlike it's predecessor the AL-250G

Do you mind if I ask what you bought?

Wow. Thanks so much for the informative replies guys. Really appreciate it.

I guess Simonl has hit the nail on the head for me. I really have no idea what im looking for. I'm a total novoice and like the comfort of having a brand new machine. Even if it is sub standard when compared to a vintage style machine that simply just works. I really wish I had the confidence to buy a second hand machine, really, because I've read up on the hercus and they seem like a real quality machine...

I don't really know anyone that has lathe experience either...and the last thing i want is to buy a lemon of a lathe that is 'out' and cause me no end of pain.
I also don't know where to start looking, there's nothing on eBay and i cant stand gumtree...

So looks like I'm swaying off the AL250G and more towards the C6...but i really want those change gears!!....This decision making doesn't get easier, I tell you that..
Maybe I need to start looking it as a temporary machine till I have more experience and then really know what I want....

I bought an Optimum Maschinen. It doesn't have some of the things some consider necessary, but I'm extremely happy with it. Can't stand Gumtree? - I'm sure there's a story behind that. Care to expand?

Originally Posted by th62

I bought an Optimum Maschinen. It doesn't have some of the things some consider necessary, but I'm extremely happy with it. Can't stand Gumtree? - I'm sure there's a story behind that. Care to expand?

OH don't get me wrong, there are plenty of great items on Gumtree, however I find they are few and far between. I often get people not answering calls or messages, I turn up after chatting to them and they're not there, The ads are missing key and vital information, and the majority of the sellers on there that I've dealt with just seem a little shady. I think there's much to be said with a free advertising system such as Gumtree.
Sure, there are the good guys on there, but its such a daunting process. I've even tried selling stuff on there before and I tell you, it wastes about 90% of my time, so I'd rather not even bother looking on there.

Keeping that in mind, I do jump on and have a scan from time to time, but I've seen nothing lately of value.

I've had a look at NewMac equipment in bayswater, they have a few Herless lathes that would suit my size/budget, but I hear they are also hit and miss (The Herless).

This is the C6's big brother the C8, another $1000 or so though and no geared head.

Sieg C8 30"X11" 750x280mm Quick Change Gearbox Metal Lathe With Stand Cabinet | eBay

Here is some quite detailed info on the C8

Review: Sieg C8 Lathe

Mini-lathe.com also has some good info on the C6

Review: Sieg C6 Lathe

When I started looking for a metal lathe I was probably as confused, if not more so, as you are now.

I originally wanted to buy a 7x14 Mini Lathe (Sieg) and actually ordered one from Carbatec. Because they gave me the run around I then started looking around for other metal lathes with EVS (Electronic Variable Speed), which was very high on my "must have" list.

This eventually led me to Asset Plant and Machinery as they had an 8x16 version of the mini lathe. When I went to inspect this I discovered they also had a 9x20 with EVS for not much more money.

SM-0920V. Bench Lathe, Variable Speed. Steelmaster. 500mm Centres, 230mm Swing, 21mm Bore, - Buy Workshop Equipment & Machinery Online | Asset Plant & Machinery

That is the lathe I finished up buying, it is now a few years ago and I am still very happy with that lathe and have made quite a few additions and mods to it. See the link to Steelmaster Lathe in my signature.

Originally Posted by oohsam

OH don't get me wrong, there are plenty of great items on Gumtree, however I find they are few and far between. I often get people not answering calls or messages, I turn up after chatting to them and they're not there, The ads are missing key and vital information, and the majority of the sellers on there that I've dealt with just seem a little shady. I think there's much to be said with a free advertising system such as Gumtree.
Sure, there are the good guys on there, but its such a daunting process. I've even tried selling stuff on there before and I tell you, it wastes about 90% of my time, so I'd rather not even bother looking on there.

Keeping that in mind, I do jump on and have a scan from time to time, but I've seen nothing lately of value.

I've had a look at NewMac equipment in bayswater, they have a few Herless lathes that would suit my size/budget, but I hear they are also hit and miss (The Herless).

Been my Gumtree experience too. I've bought quite a few pieces off Gumtree and generally been ok when doing the buying. However, selling is a different matter. Like you say probably 90% time wasters. I've had that many people ring up, be keen as mustard, organise a time and then never show or send you a message 3 hrs after your organised time say "I can't get there, can we do tomorrow" I wont sell on there anymore. Just not worth the frustration.

Originally Posted by Big Shed

Here is some quite detailed info on the C8

Review: Sieg C8 Lathe

Mini-lathe.com also has some good info on the C6

Review: Sieg C6 Lathe

When I started looking for a metal lathe I was probably as confused, if not more so, as you are now.

I originally wanted to buy a 7x14 Mini Lathe (Sieg) and actually ordered one from Carbatec. Because they gave me the run around I then started looking around for other metal lathes with EVS (Electronic Variable Speed), which was very high on my "must have" list.

This eventually led me to Asset Plant and Machinery as they had an 8x16 version of the mini lathe. When I went to inspect this I discovered they also had a 9x20 with EVS for not much more money.

SM-0920V. Bench Lathe, Variable Speed. Steelmaster. 500mm Centres, 230mm Swing, 21mm Bore, - Buy Workshop Equipment & Machinery Online | Asset Plant & Machinery

That is the lathe I finished up buying, it is now a few years ago and I am still very happy with that lathe and have made quite a few additions and mods to it. See the link to Steelmaster Lathe in my signature.

Fred
I really like that sm920 how much would one be looking at paying for such a machine.
I also saw a sc4 which has tickled my fancy which had a brushless motor and lots of torque....

But this 920v looks the goods.

From memory I paid around the $1200 mark, as there is no price on the Asset listing you may need to contact them for a current price.