Thread: Need a lathe... Hafco AL-320G?

Forget my last post...

Wow! There are quite a few bargains to be had! Thanks for the heads up all! How would the 910mm paramount be for turning the small stuff though?

Originally Posted by SkydivingSteve

Forget my last post...

Wow! There are quite a few bargains to be had! Thanks for the heads up all! How would the 910mm paramount be for turning the small stuff though?

Define 'small stuff'.

It's got a top speed of 1800 rpm which is fine. If you want to machine the ends of 1.5mm pins, not really fast enough. Anything bigger, no dramas really.

Even better is its low speed of a bit over 60 rpm. Trust me, you do NOT want to be threading up to a shoulder or an internal blind hole at high speed, especially if you're cutting a coarse pitch. Gets very exciting.

D1-4 camlock spindle and a 38mm spindle bore. Both good things.

Frankly I'd buy more lathe and less accessories (QCTP etc) up front. You can add them as the budget permits. Growing the lathe is a lot harder.....

PDW

Originally Posted by PDW

Define 'small stuff'.

Frankly I'd buy more lathe and less accessories (QCTP etc) up front. You can add them as the budget permits. Growing the lathe is a lot harder.....

PDW

+1

You can get by without a QCTP - I don't have one and it's never bothered me. Buy one later.

Small lathes are made for small jobs, that's why watch makers don't use AL-320G's.

Now this one looks interesting

http://www.machines4u.com.au/view/ad...-Lathe/124659/

I know we're diverging a bit here, but that looks really nice for the money, if anyone wants a tool makers lathe. Appears to be a new chuck as well. Not suitable for the OP's task.

Rob

That is nice! Aren't they ~$80K new or something ridiculous? Must be something wrong with it. If it's all good that is a bargain big time if only it was slightly bigger... It might be worth a phone call to find out though. I'll call them tomorrow to find out.

The smallest I'll be turning is some 6mm 4140 rod turned down to 3mm (I can't find any smaller that 6mm so turning it down will be my only option, unless I'm looking in all the wrong places:/), machine the ends to length with a slight bevel then I'll use a 0.5mm pitch M3 HSS die to thread the ends by hand (if I could do the threading on the lathe Id try it just for the experience, but what ever is easiest). I need them for servo control arms, suspension pins/bolts etc for RC UGV's and UAV's. That's the smallest I'll be (planning on) doing, if I can that is...

And PDW, I get what your saying, I will be a nice size if I can do the smaller stuff. I have allowed $4k total, $2k for the lathe and $2k for tooling so who knows, I'll try and get the supplier to throw in a QCTP, if they don't I'll leave it for a while till the price is right on one. Is the quality on par with the AL-320G to the 910mm Paramount? I know it's 530kg Vs the al-320gs 280kg (I'm going to need a forklift and an engine hoist aren't I??) That's going to be the hardest part...

Thanks for all the help! I'm learning a hell of a lot! Keep it coming please

I was not suggesting the Hardinge was at all suitable for your task - it has no horizontal feed (or even a carriage).

In regard to using a big lathe for small jobs, they can do it up to a point, the major problem being the chuck is too large to grip smaller diams.

But that can easily be got around by using collets in it. Just get a set of ER collets and away you go.

As far as the Praamount machine quality goes, there's quite a few Adelaide posters here (incuding me) who would probably help out by having a look if out that way.

Cheers

Rob

Originally Posted by SkydivingSteve

And PDW, I get what your saying, I will be a nice size if I can do the smaller stuff. I have allowed $4k total, $2k for the lathe and $2k for tooling so who knows, I'll try and get the supplier to throw in a QCTP, if they don't I'll leave it for a while till the price is right on one. Is the quality on par with the AL-320G to the 910mm Paramount? I know it's 530kg Vs the al-320gs 280kg (I'm going to need a forklift and an engine hoist aren't I??) That's going to be the hardest part...

Thanks for all the help! I'm learning a hell of a lot! Keep it coming please

I have no idea of the quality of those machines but I'd expect them to easily be capable of what you want to do. I would take that Paramount lathe over the AL320G in a heartbeat, it's a lot more machine.

Heavier is good, not bad. More mass, more vibration damping, more rigidity. I have 2 lathes of about the same capacity - an Emco Maximat 11 and a Colchester Chipmaster. Both are very well made, the Emco is a lot newer and in perfect mechanical condition. I prefer using the Chipmaster which has twice the mass. A Monarch 10EE with the same capacity is more than twice as heavy again as a Chipmaster.

If you are going to do a lot of small stuff, seriously consider getting or making a collet chuck. They hold stuff like 6mm rod better and more concentric than a 3 jaw chuck will, have less rotating mass so can be run at higher speeds, less projection and all round superior performance. You can buy one for a D1-4 spindle nose.

Before you find out the hard way, do NOT EVER let small diameter rod protrude any distance out the back of the spindle when running at any sort of speed. It *will* bend and turn into a flail, easily capable of damaging anything in reach, most certainly including you. Cut the rod to length first. I say this because with a lathe it's easy to use a full length in the spindle, turn and part off as you go. Bad move for slender stuff at high speed.

PDW

Rob: Thanks for the offer of checking it out possibly. The other small problem I have just found out is getting it to me (Adelaide to Mission beach)... Paramount want $1335.90 just for freight that's if I were to go through them... I did a search on freight from Port Adelaide to Mission Beach QLD for 530kg crate 1700x750x750 and the cheapest was Toll IPEC @ $1556.47 (There goes my tooling budget if I get it for $2500~)... I do have family down there, I might be able to drive it back (4500kms 1 way) but that's a 3 day minimum drive plus a flight and car rental... Hmm ...


I have however found this http://www.gasweld.com.au/580713-toolex.html


https://www.woodworkforums.com/archiv.../t-132768.html

From Gasweld freight is $837.64 to my door. It's the same machine but I'm unsure what comes with it? Ie chucks, centres etc... Is it the same package (without the stand of coarse, I can TIG a better up for next to nothing anyway) plus I'll see if they can do a better price or even price match paramount as the freight is way up there but better than $1335.90 let alone $1556.47 , $332.29 less than paramount, but that still only leaves me with $267.36 from my $4K budget... But if I pick it up from Townsville (2.5hrs away) it's ~$600 in freight... Another $200~ for tooling... How much is tooling going to be to start up from CTC? Or is this going to blow my budget big time? The AL-320G was $336 to my door (only half the size/weight though...)

F$&k this is a tough one

PDW: Thanks for letting me know about the small rod stock hanging out the spindle! I've briefly thought about that already but you never know some people these days, I have seen some stupid over the years that makes you go WHY?!? WHAT?!? HOW??! HUH!!? IDIOTS!!! It's a very wise thing to post though! Thank you.

Knock, knock... Darwin here!

Probably the most stupidest (I know it's not a word, but it fits with this) one I've seen so far, an apprentice carpenter that was working with us at the time doing a roof on a 3 story apartment block in Cairns for some stupid reason decided it would be really fun to race the other apprentice up the 3 story scaffold but from the outside whilst the other apprentice took the stairs... No matter how much we shouted at him to stop he kept going... Right at the top he decided to try and jump to grab the top railing but missed it by "that much" (you could see his finger prints on the railing, he touched it but that's it... Fell 3 story's down, missed all the broken bessa blocks and stacked unused scaffolding on the ground next to him, landing in a meter square between them of clear dirt... Shattered both his ankles to the point they were powder, shattered both wrists whist his right arms radius and ulna blew out through the palm of his hand and severely broke both the radius and ulna of both arms in half... Needless to say he got the sack. IDIOT!!! What can you do? Sorry back to the topic...

Maybe get a freight quote from ozmestore on Ebay?

Originally Posted by SkydivingSteve

I have however found this http://www.gasweld.com.au/580713-toolex.html


https://www.woodworkforums.com/archiv.../t-132768.html

From Gasweld freight is $837.64 to my door. .

That's definitely the one I'd go for.

I've seen that unit and played with it, and it's a good machine.

If you could pick it up it would be an excellent deal.

Yep, that's about as good a value as you could hope for. The Toolex gear is generally OK.

And Gasweld (or whatever they are now called) have good customer service - bit better that Ozmestores I suspect.

Cheers

Rob

Cool. I'll hit up Ozmestore and see what they can do.

If it's worth it I'll get it! So much for the $2K budget Ha ha ha

Do you think the crate will fit in the back of a patrol wagon? I have to buy one of them soon as my son can't go in my ute so I might start looking in Brisbane for one and pick both up at the same time if it'll fit... Money money money money money ...

Originally Posted by SkydivingSteve

Rob: Thanks for the offer of checking it out possibly. The other small problem I have just found out is getting it to me (Adelaide to Mission beach)... Paramount want $1335.90 just for freight that's if I were to go through them... I did a search on freight from Port Adelaide to Mission Beach QLD for 530kg crate 1700x750x750 and the cheapest was Toll IPEC @ $1556.47 (There goes my tooling budget if I get it for $2500~)... I do have family down there, I might be able to drive it back (4500kms 1 way) but that's a 3 day minimum drive plus a flight and car rental... Hmm ...


I have however found this http://www.gasweld.com.au/580713-toolex.html

For thread cutting, that is an inch lathe. The leadscrew is 8 threads per inch.

Not necessarily a bad thing, depends on whether you think you'll screw cut more inch pitch threads than metric ones.

Be a good idea to check out what the rest of the machine is calibrated in as well. If there's some idiotic division count on the cross slide and compound, you can bet the grads are a conversion from a different measuring system. Of course if you add a DRO, the problem reduces itself to the lead screw - which is why it's better to think about that one and decide if it's important to you.

Agree about the stand, building one from RHS is simple and you get what you want.

The machine *might* fit in the back of a Patrol wagon but getting it in & out will be a PITA. You'd be a lot better off hiring or borrowing a trailer (or a mate with a ute). Doesn't need to be super heavy duty, the machine is only a bit over half a tonne.

Afterthought - those freight quotes are outrageous. I shipped a 2 tonne machine measuring 2.4m x 1.35m x 1.8m from Melbourne to Hobart last year, cost me less than $1000.

PDW

Originally Posted by PDW

For thread cutting, that is an inch lathe. The leadscrew is 8 threads per inch.

Not necessarily a bad thing, depends on whether you think you'll screw cut more inch pitch threads than metric ones.


The machine *might* fit in the back of a Patrol wagon but getting it in & out will be a PITA. You'd be a lot better off hiring or borrowing a trailer (or a mate with a ute). Doesn't need to be super heavy duty, the machine is only a bit over half a tonne.

Afterthought - those freight quotes are outrageous. I shipped a 2 tonne machine measuring 2.4m x 1.35m x 1.8m from Melbourne to Hobart last year, cost me less than $1000.

PDW

I always thought an imperial leadscrew gave you more overall thread options than a metric one. I'm not saying that's right, but what I was told.

I agree, a trailer or ute would be required. That's one heavy mutha to try and move/slide into anything.

Maybe the forum guys with this Toolex lathe can provide some insight into thread capabilities, and any issues.

If it came to spares or warranty claims, I'd much rather be with Gasweld - Paramount and Ozme would be rather poor in that regard I expect.

If you do buy it from Gasweld, most definitely ask them if that's the best price they can do.

Often Gasweld (well my local in SA) will come down in price on items they have some leeway on (not all), but worth asking. Also point out that you have a long trek to get it, it all helps to get the price down.

Rob

Originally Posted by nearnexus

I always thought an imperial leadscrew gave you more overall thread options than a metric one. I'm not saying that's right, but what I was told.

I can't see how. The number of thread pitches is determined by the available gear sets. If you have the gears, it's all possible. My Emco Maximat 11 is a metric machine but with the correct gears it can cut the full range of inch threads, plus module and DP. So can my inch Chipmaster.

It's a PITA cutting metric using an inch leadscrew and vice versa because you can't disengage the half nuts (without taking other precautions that are also a PITA). Not that it can't be done, just it's a PITA - especially on a machine that doesn't have instant reverse via 3 phase motor, or a foot brake or similar. So if you know you're going to be mainly cutting metric threads, buying a lathe with an inch leadscrew is not the best idea. Now it may well be that the tradeoffs in other areas make it acceptable, in which case, fine. Just think about it before the purchase.

Having one of each makes the problem go away.....

PDW

Good pick up PDW.

The AL-335, Paramount FI-910 and the CQ6230A-580713 from Gasweld are all the same machine from what I can gather. All three come with an imperial lead screw with change gears for metric and imperial for 36 different pitch for each (72 total). The Gasweld states "Dual calibration on tailstock spindle, cross-slide and toolpost travel, imperial only on saddle" as is the AL-335, I can't find it on the paramount but I am guessing it's exactly the same. I can get the AL-335 to my door for $629.10 and try and convince the of giving me a better price as the others are far less for the same machine (the paramount and AL-335 come with a stand where the CQ6230A from Gasweld doesn't seam to, it may though).

Weight wise they state different weights: AL-335 460kg, paramount 530kg (+/-? 30-35kgs for the stand I don't know?) and the CQ6230A doesn't say.

I don't know if there is any difference as to what extras each come with or are they the same. Seems to me they would be. If I can talk H&F down in price to match the others, should I get one as the freight is far less?

Thanks for the info!