Thread: Lathe safety (off topic prevention)

I don't think the road toll has been 2000 in Oz for some decades! Injuries due to mv crashes in NSW alone are over 25,000 though, say 100,000 pa aust wide. Does seem odd, lethal danger has been normalised, yet I've seen signs on trivial workplace issues anyone with an IQ above freezing should recognize - and have nearly no consequences if ignored.

Every fool proof device just breeds a new type of fool.

Originally Posted by Hunch

I don't think the road toll has been 2000 in Oz for some decades! Injuries due to mv crashes in NSW alone are over 25,000 though, say 100,000 pa aust wide. Does seem odd, lethal danger has been normalised, yet I've seen signs on trivial workplace issues anyone with an IQ above freezing should recognize - and have nearly no consequences if ignored.

I remember speaking to a particular punter (after a minor collision) and he said he thought air bags were no good. His reasoning was because statistically the injury rate had gone up considerably since their introduction into mainstream vehicles. I told him this was because all those extra injuries would have been deaths.

Reading some of the posts here, I do feel rather lucky when it comes to co-workers and their attitude towards safety. Most people I work with are very safety conscious but don't expect silly procedures and engineering systems to remove the need to have common sense.

Simon

Originally Posted by ian

the key word is usually "ensure" -- in that the employer will "ensure" that the work place is safe.

"ensure" is a very tough standard to meet, and if you sit in a chair marked "go to gaol" if something really bad happens at work, you sometimes get ultra cautious.

Tell me about it?
Ensure and Duty of care that goes along with it

One of the reasons I gave teaching away was the mindset of some of the students. A lathe related example was a student who sat through the lathe safety theory lesson, passed the written theory safety test, and did an hour of lathe practice under my direct supervision.

In those sessions despite numerous mentions of the hazardous practice of leaving the lathe key in the chuck - without the operators hand on it, this student still managed to press the start button on the lathe and then attempted to grab the key as it swung around in the lathe.
I was not held to be responsible as I had did all possible to ensure this boy was safe on the lathe. I had documentation for the training but some one who didn't, could well end up in a court given the right set of circumstances.

Naturally his hand was crushed against the vee bedway. Actual amputation was prevented by a stop block being in the right position to catch the tee handle. That was five years ago and I still have that image in my head.
With some individuals it matters little to what systems and equipment are provided, unless the individual has the personal self awareness there is not a lot a supervisor can do, short of removing those individuals who demonstrate the lack of willingness to show any degree of self protection - from the workplace.

Safety starts with the individual making it their business to wear the PPE. I have lost count of the workshops I have been where simple safety glasses are seen everywhere but not covering eyes where they are meant to be as advised by the OH &S placards all over the shop.
I won't speak for others but in the metalworking/fabrication circles I have worked in many of the floor workers are their own worst enemy as far as safety goes.

Grahame

I concede there as some poorly performing bosses but in the main the people on the floor let them selves down Re OH &S performance.

Originally Posted by Grahame Collins

I concede there as some poorly performing bosses but in the main the people on the floor let them selves down Re OH &S performance.

But the bosses get the blame...

I heard a story where a person got told not to ride a motorbike to work as the trip to and from work is classed as being at work thus covered by OHS and motorbikes were seen as dangerous...

And then there was the documented case where Telstra was sued for OHS violations after an employee working from her own house, fell down the stairs. http://www.hcamag.com/hr-news/landma...ts-109135.aspx

My favorite safety story is of the multinational company who sent out hundreds of safety posters to branch offices around Australia to mark the start of a big safety campaign, the poster was a plastic wall hanging that came tightly rolled up in a cardboard tube, when you unrolled the poster it would spring back and several people reported getting cut on the sharp edges as it snapped back... so an urgent message went out from head office...

"Don't open the safety poster it's a safety hazard" .... and all the posters were recalled.

Dangerous things safety campaigns..

I'll leave it to Phil to tell the story of the gas detector and safe working practices in confined spaces.

Ray

Originally Posted by .RC.

But the bosses get the blame...

I heard a story where a person got told not to ride a motorbike to work as the trip to and from work is classed as being at work thus covered by OHS and motorbikes were seen as dangerous...

And then there was the documented case where Telstra was sued for OHS violations after an employee working from her own house, fell down the stairs. http://www.hcamag.com/hr-news/landma...ts-109135.aspx

I hadn't seen that one before. Truly mind blowing.

Here's a good one for contemplation, on the topic of current OHS regs - Worksafe states, and my employers SWMS also states, that 3 points of contact must be maintained when ascending or descending a ladder. As far as I can work out, that means I can't carry anything up or down the ladder...

Originally Posted by Jekyll and Hyde

current OHS regs - Worksafe states, and my employers SWMS also states, that 3 points of contact must be maintained when ascending or descending a ladder. As far as I can work out, that means I can't carry anything up or down the ladder...

The very same rule applied in the 1970's when I worked in the Alumina refinery.

Its not rocket science to work out a tool bag is a good idea. Climb up the ladder with a coil of rope over the shoulder and you let it down and your work partner tied it to the bag and taped out the area underneath. We always worked with 2 or more fitters. All walkways and platforms had kickboards installed so nothing was accidentally booted over the edge anyway.

A job safe practice was conducted before work was started to plan and organise the job taking into account tag outs, possible hazards and procedure etc.

Safety is common sense and common sense does not come easily to some.

I'll add that if ladder work is required the employer should be supplying the bag and the rope.The bags we used were canvas and adequate for the majority of jobs.

Grahame

Originally Posted by Jekyll and Hyde

I hadn't seen that one before. Truly mind blowing.

Here's a good one for contemplation, on the topic of current OHS regs - Worksafe states, and my employers SWMS also states, that 3 points of contact must be maintained when ascending or descending a ladder. As far as I can work out, that means I can't carry anything up or down the ladder...

I did the working at heights course last year. The company that ran the course said ladders are the most dangerous items on all workplaces and are generally being phased out of the work place. Anything over 1 mtr (maybe less) you had to be tethered in, or in cherry picker or a platform ladder.

On another note, I was using the bench grinder and drill press yesterday. Nearly forgot to put my safetys on when grinding(on top of my head) and left the drill chuck in the chuck when turning on at main power - the drill was on the ON position. The little drill chuck gave me a good old fright as it flew past my head.

I believe in WHS but also believe in one's own responsibility. I also think a lot of people are making a heap of money of WHS.

Ben.

Originally Posted by Grahame Collins

I won't speak for others but in the metalworking/fabrication circles I have worked in many of the floor workers are their own worst enemy as far as safety goes.

I concede there as some poorly performing bosses but in the main the people on the floor let them selves down Re OH &S performance.

Originally Posted by bwal74

On another note, I was using the bench grinder and drill press yesterday. Nearly forgot to put my safetys on when grinding(on top of my head) and left the drill chuck in the chuck when turning on at main power - the drill was on the ON position. The little drill chuck gave me a good old fright as it flew past my head.

I believe in WHS but also believe in one's own responsibility. I also think a lot of people are making a heap of money of WHS.

Ben.

They are only making money because there is an increasing requirement & need for safety training. Some of the responses above reinforce that argument including yours.

In your case a simple methodical routine to start up & shut down machines correctly & to check the machine before turning on the mains power would greatly reduce risk. Even better an engineered control built into the ON/OFF switch to prevent unintended (not accidental) start up if the machine is incorrectly switched off or after a mains power fail. The switches are common & mandatory in workplaces but not on hobby machines. Why? The manufacturer can save money - do they care about your safety? or would you pay a few extra dollars to purchase a machine with one? Even a quality high impact face shield as PPE may reduce the severity of a potential injury from a flying chuck key. You were wearing a face shield weren't you? Safety spectacles at least? I'm not being a SA here. A more holistic approach to task safety keeps us "safer". When one element of our safety routine fails for what ever reason we have routines or processes to help identify the stuff up, or to offer at least some measure of protection for when we do stuff up. We all stuff up at some point!

Instilling a safety culture sounds very daunting but all it really means is developing processes and routines that encourage, a worker or a hobbyist, to methodically approach tasks, to take a moment to plan tasks and think about what steps are involved, how the plan the sequence of tasks, what they are about to do and what may happen IF something unplanned occurs! It also means forcing parties who are unwilling to do "the right thing" to actually comply with a minimum standard, whether that be a standard of conduct for a boss, a worker, a visitor to a workplace or a design or manufacturing standard for manufacturers.

These "things" are not "common sense" - that term is pure BS, there is no such thing as "common sense." There is common learning taught but as we all know to well common knowledge and common experience is not so common. Sadly the common learning part is failing us miserably as secondary, post secondary and tertiary teaching institutions and work places are becoming obsessively risk averse as they focus less on practical learning and look to remove all risk from manual tasks. There is a cost of being obsessively risk averse too!

Every thing we do carries an element of risk. Hazards exist, some things are "inherently dangerous" only because we permit or tolerate the level of risk. Safety is only about control and management of hazards and risk for the individual and common good. Its a system to identify hazards, prioritize risk, and to eliminate fatal or catastrophic outcomes then manage lower risks - that is all it is. No one likes to get injured, maimed or killed and some of us would rather not have our medical & hospital systems tied up with avoidable injuries.

Lastly we are fallible, forgetful, over confident, casual, complacent ....... and easily distracted. People are their own worst enemy when it comes to task safety as I prefer to call it when talking about hobby or non paid work pursuits. We stuff up, it may not be often, but it can be an unwanted adrenaline rush or worse when we do. We can however stack the odds well in our favor by implementing following prudent safe task practices.

Of course when a business gets shut down as OHS rules force them to move off shore to a country with less OHS rules and just imports the goods, when a former employee gets made redundant because of this, then cannot find another job as there is nothing suitable for them, then they fall into depression and commit suicide that is not counted as a "safety issue" even though in reality it is...

Originally Posted by Grahame Collins

Safety is common sense and common sense does not come easily to some.

It's common sense that it takes 2 people to change a globe in a fluoro?

Nominate me for the Darwin award now then.

Originally Posted by Jekyll and Hyde

that 3 points of contact must be maintained when ascending or descending a ladder. As far as I can work out, that means I can't carry anything up or down the ladder...

Same as one of my customers...must also wear a hard hat while accending and decending.. and must keep it on while on the roof ...low flying pelicans or something I reckon

also, the thermostats installed at their premises are a tad too high for myself to get to see wiring terminals so one day I used my 3 foot steps and was standing on the first rung from the floor (thats about 12inches from the floor) and the OHSW officer blasted me for not wearing a hard hat...inside the office...apparently I can use one of these though


without a hard hat.

Unfortunately there is no 'in between' in anything these days, it's all or nothing. But the bottom line is: everybody has a right to work in safe environment and go home at the end of the day in one piece. Better too many silly rules than none at all!