Thread: LPG heating torches

Hi John,
I'd be interested to see what you come up with. I am in the same boat, love my oxy, hate the $$$$$$ Boc charges for rental The compressed air unit sounds good. The other thing to consider is using LPG/O2 and buying an O2 bottle outright from a airliquid dealer.

I for one would be very interested in any information regarding price and availability you find out about that German lpg/comp air unit.

Before I got the Bullfinch (after selling the oxy plant) I played around with a compressed air feed into my regular old style Primus lpg gun.

I got the idea from an old Mechanics book I had from the 1940's where workshops used a similar setup with mains gas to bump up the temperature as a sort of very crude/por mans torch.

It will work with LPG, BUT the jetting is already pretty much as lean as they can go on those guns to get maximum temperature from the standard gun/regulator.

Adding extra compressed air pushes up the temperature by (very rough guess) 20% but the flame can easily be extinguished by the work if you upset the flame path.

This was a home brew setup, and it did help a lot, but it's not a patch on the specially made/regulated Bullfinch, and it roared like a 747 taking off

Had an awesome flame about 9" long as well.

So a specialty gun/properly jetted and with a full mixing head like that German one would be great and with those figures I most definitely would buy one if it was available for sub $400 AU.

Keep us informed on that one.

Hi John,
Be sure to let us know what you find out. I've seen those tourches in a book and would sure like one.... though I'm not so sure I'll like the cost.

I'll scan the pictures for you Cliff, though it might be "only" 80000 BTU(23.5kW...... thats a lot)

Torches | Gas Torch | Brazing Torch | Soldering Torch - Flamefast

Stuart

p.s. that flame temp drawing is for a self-blown gas torch

nearnexus, on the weekend just for a bitta fun I fitted a LPG cutting tip in my comet 3 and hooked up the compressed air to it.

Yep.........it sounded like a jumbo jet

When adjusted to a good hot flame the base of the flame was semi-spherical, about 4" dia, 16" long and about 16" from the tip, hahaha

It went out easily and probably would work with fire bricks and very still air, I was thinking about how to make a suitable heating tip and I came in to see if I could find anything on the internet about propane and compressed air, bingo, I found those torches.

If/when I get replies from the suppliers I will post them here.

john

Shed, are you going to email the company?

Technically those guns might have an adjustable needle type main jet so you can richen up the LPG to match the air pressure ?

And then do they mix the gas in the head, or use a special multi flow jet in the burner head instead.

Interesting to speculate on how they do it properly.

nearnexus, have contacted them, and maybe I'm also hoping for a massive nose dive with the euro

Just to settle the Mapp gas argument.

Whether or not it is hotter or not, it is no longer valid, as the last Mapp gas was produced in 2008 ( read the WIKI) and I for one,have not seen refills in the stores.

Maybe its got sumptin to do with the legal nastiness in the good old USA over the cylinder failures with the stuff.

The propylene, its replacement,does not cut it for me.

I am interested in one of these German jobbies.

Grahame

OK Shed.

The Perkeo guns look the most interesting. We might need some advice on picking the right burner head.

Second ones down from the top (first NEW) on page 79 look about right ?

Found this for the Harris http://www.rapidwelding.com/dynamic/...m.aspx?c=H2250

Wow -----not cheap and NO mention of brazing with that one.

It looks like I just got a reply back from china.

I've been though this before, it seems that I will have to send one email for each question !!

====================================

dear sir,

the heat is 2000°C! this is more than MAPP gas.

the price for the set is 308,35 €/set plus packing and freight cost.

regards
PERKEO-WERK GMBH+CO.KG

Yassine Hönes
managing director



PERKEO-WERK GMBH+CO.KG
Talweg 5
D-71701 Schwieberdingen
GERMANY

Tel. +49 (0) 7150 - 35043-21
Fax +49 (0) 7150 - 35043-40

www.perkeo-werk.de
[email protected]

Originally Posted by nearnexus

Maybe someone who's actually used one can enlighten us on how they perform ?

My pleasure! I've owned a CIG Comcolt oxy-LPG torch for over 30 years. I also have a MAPP turbotorch. I use the MAPP for silver-soldering copper to copper and annealing hard copper before bending. I use the oxy-LPG for silver soldering copper to brass fittings and brazing steel tube.

For brazing and silver-soldering large parts I often fit a cutting tip to the Comcolt to get enough BTUs into the job. It's quicker and allows a softer flame which has less tendency to blow out I find.

For more info from people who know more about the subject than me, see this tread from the welding forum:

https://www.woodworkforums.com/f160/l...-flame-152088/

Cheers,
Chris

Oops, I just noticed there's another page to this thread that I hadn't read. Some of what I've written has been covered by others. LPG/compressed air sounds promising (if not very portable).

I have used oxy lpg for years, for cutting I prefer it to oxy acet.
If works fine for brazing, either nickel or manganese bronze and also solver soldering, even on heavy copper.
Forget fusion welding the flame is too oxidising and not intense enough.

It works fine for heating, I have heated everything from 16mm plate to 125mm bar to bright red. You need the correct tips for this, in the larger sizes LPG tips become more common.

Air LPG is good for large area preheating and silver soldering steel and light copper, it helps to pile insulating firebricks around larger jobs.

Crossfeed are you saying that these LPG/compressed air guns are more suited to pre-heating ?

Is the flame pattern/path too large for accurate localised application to melt bronze in a controlled manner?

Both the the comp air/LPG guns that Shed identified seem to be aimed more at heating large areas (lots of BTHUs) but maybe not so flash for intense heat application? That's why I suggested buyers might need some advice on burner selection.

This is the whole problem with bronze brazing - you want lots of heat, but it has to be concentrated to do the job. eg. Kitchen stoves have lots of BTHU but you can't bronze braze with them

The application of compressed air seems to have one major issue regarding flame propogation in that you are pushing 80% in volume of non combustible gas through the flame path. This is probably why Shed and my experiments with comp air resulted in such a fragile but huge flame pattern.

That's my main worry over using this setup and why I am a bit suspect on what it would be like to use.

It's OK to outlay all this cash if you know 100% that it will do the job, eg as for the Bullfinch, where I saw it demonstrated in outdoor conditions at the Kapunda Farm Fair on several occassions.

The German gun with the right burner tip may be great stuff, and a leg up on what I've currently got - BUT we need more information.

I managed to get some answers from www.perkeo-werk.de

Here is the email, her answers are in red.

==============================================

Yassine said:

you have to try them, that´s what i think.


Am 27.06.2012 14:48, schrieb j:


Hi again Yassine,
Originally I was considering to purchase this,
Model 89-3 | The Harris Products Group
The problem with that torch is that it only is provided with one size heating tip so it will be restricted in it's versatility.
Your Propane-compressed air torch 786/00/T6 has three we have 7 different (#786/0 - #786/6) heating tips supplied, what are the differences in those heating tips ? Do they change the focus of the heat-no, or are they for small heating jobs to larger heating+brazing job's - yes?
I need something that I can use for small copper pipe silver soldering, use to heat rusted machine parts
to assist in disassembly of shafts, bearings ect, and for heat treating and annealing steel shaft and hard-drawn
copper pipe, for heating and bending pipe and metal bar. for more power take also the bigger size #786/5

I noticed in your catalog that you also have a larger propane-compressed air heating torch,
"PERKEO Propane-compressed air heating, brazing and melting outfit RISTA 786/1/00/T6"
Is the performance of this torch much greater than the 786/00/T6 ? yes! it´s for preheating big moulds f.e.

The use's we have for these torch's are many and varied, how do these two torches compare with oxy/propane torches ?
the flame of the compressed air-propane torches is not as the oxy-propane flame. it´s more bushy an not so hot.

What are the output's in BTU's ? between 75117 - 341442 btu

What type of work are these torches usually used for ? brazing, heating, soldering.....

I am sorry for all the questions Yassine but this type of torch is new to me, I have never even
heard of these before a few day's ago and neither has any of my associates,
it appears that these torches have not been sold in Australia before to our knowledge.

regards John

==============================================

She sure isn't gunna get a "gas torch saleswomen" of the year award !

And I still have not had a reply from Harris regarding their torch.

John

Ummm, Shed......I think Yassine is a bloke.

My limited understanding of middle eastern names seems to suggest that's not a woman your dealing with.

If so, then yes, Yassine definitely won't get gas torch saleswoman of the year award

Seems rather odd that the Perkeo comp air/propane guns aren't sold through the Perkeo retailers I saw on the web.

BTW I found this sheet on another brand of British lpg/comp air torches.

Flamefast - which look sorta similar to the German ones.

T2 and T4 type.

http://www.flamefast.co.uk/PDFs/FLAM...T_V1_LORES.pdf

Interesting that they run at 4 psi compressed air - they also sell a special air blower that will supply this. Will have to check to see if my big regulator can go down to 4 psi.

And the same company have a "any questions, please contact us " email address for their torches.

http://www.flamefast.co.uk/torches.html

Maybe they can supply flame shape/size data. Do you want me to contact them or will you ?