Thread: A marketing question -

For mine, I quite enjoy making things like this. It gives me a chance to try new techniques or tools.

I currently have some space in which I plan to put some drawers. A couple to four small ones for (as you say) gauges, pencils, verniers etc. With drawers around 700mm deep and say 300 to 400mm across, I would be looking at 2m per drawer. So between $40 and $60 per drawer. Maybe a little on the exxy side ... But not by much I don't think.

As far as distribution goes, I would happily purchase over the web as long as the product was recommended by someone on this forum or similar.

Would I buy without recommendation ? ... Probably not.

Would I buy if I saw it in a store ... Probably.

Would I go to a specialist store just for this product ? ... Dunno.






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Interesting product. As noted but Glenn, the price could add up significantly with a few drawers.

Do all four sides of the drawer need to be extrusion, or is there facility for using extrusion for the sides, and wood or other material for front and back?

Originally Posted by pippin88

Interesting product. As noted but Glenn, the price could add up significantly with a few drawers.

Do all four sides of the drawer need to be extrusion, or is there facility for using extrusion for the sides, and wood or other material for front and back?

I remember back in the late '70's perhaps even 1980's there used to be an extruded plastic drawer sides kit with klick tab corner joiners.

I found it - good old Mr Google - http://www.google.com.au/patents/US4042288

Originally Posted by pippin88

Do all four sides of the drawer need to be extrusion, or is there facility for using extrusion for the sides, and wood or other material for front and back?

You could incorporate wood, but the principle is to save time on having to put form into the timber. If you have the gear to do that then you could also do the whole lot from wood. The hope is this makes the whole process of making drawers simpler and so effectively takes the skill level needed to produce a serviceable set down a notch. There will always be people who will spend days making up a set of drawers from scratch but for a storage case I suspect most of us would prefer something that takes a minimal amount of time so we can get back to the main game.

Originally Posted by Mobyturns

I remember back in the late '70's perhaps even 1980's there used to be an extruded plastic drawer sides kit with klick tab corner joiners.

There have been a few around. Not sure how patentable this is (still being explored). I guess the main advantage here is that plastic can go brittle over time where this will be inherently stronger and won't be damaged as easily.

Michael

PS - for those of you not wishing to voice your thoughts in open forum, a PM is fine (as a couple of members already have). We'd hate to spend the money and discover we have a flop but at the same time personally I'd hate to hold back and then discover that it would have been a useful product to have available.

Hi Michael,
I have thought about this for a bit and remember this is coming from someone that really struggles to put two bits of wood together.
I realised that I am constantly looking at drawer sliders but have never purchased. They still involve constructing a drawer.
I guess what I am saying is I would definitely give this system a crack but most likely with a metal or aluminium base.

Phil

This is a hard one Michael.

Our cheapo Ikea kitchen has Blum Metabox soft close, full extension drawer runners that work with silken smoothness. The replaced 1950's kitchen featured pine sided drawers that slid in a jarrah ladder framed carcase, poorly. They would rack, jam and slump as would most frequently used 60 year old drawers of similar construction. Inexcusably, at work we have drawer pedestals that ultilise vinyl wrapped drawer sides with plastic guides pinned to the carcase. These drawers jam so firmly that I've torn the handle off one of mine in an attempt to open the drawer. Inexcusable because metal roller runners were available when the pedestals were made.

Many of use would have metal tool cabinets that feature drawers and I imagine most of those drawers would be runner mounted. I have a pair of 25 year old Canadian White rollers cabs with top chests. The drawers are pretty much chock a block full and they slide OK on their ball bearing-less runners. Most new metal tool cabinet drawers are nowadays fitted with ball bearing runners.

If I was to contemplate building a tool cabinet that used extruded aluminium sides I would want those sides to be ball or roller mounted. Here is an example of a pretty minimal, size wise, runner -http://elraco.com.au/product_info.php/groove-runner-groove-runnerbr-185mm-zinc-platedbr-10kg-rated-p-219 The sides would also need to accommodate a base, probably ply, of at least 6mm thickness for low height drawers and thicker for those taller. Then there is the issue of drawer front (and back) attachment. Blum use a simple angle cleat affixed with a pair of screws to the drawer front. The cleat simply clicks and locks into the side/slide and is just as easily removed.

It is easy to sit back and criticise especially when that criticism comes from someone who hasn't performed any real woodwork in probably twenty years and I don't think last weekend's scribing and installing MDF skirting boards constitutes woodwork. I did use my tenon saw though!

BT

I've built a ton of drawers of all sorts of odd sizes for my boat.

*ALL* of them are on ball bearing runners of various types mainly stainless steel or very heavy zinc plated steel. The heavier ones have a horizontal lip so the drawer bottom is basically nested on top of the lip and fully supported. These are - in theory - rated at 150 kg per set. I'd *never* use inletted timber guide strips of any kind for drawer guides/slides.

I'm not a fancy wood worker, I make my drawers out of 10mm to 16mm ply sides and 10mm ply bottoms glued & screwed (or stapled) together. Easy to make any height/width desired and pretty fast. It takes a hell of a lot longer to paint them than it does to make them. I have lots all over the workshop as well.

So - without drawings/photos it's hard to be definitive - I really don't think I'd be a potential customer.

Couple photos attached - few of those drawers are the same size and *none* of them are the same depth due to the curvature of the hull. The holes are for ventilation.

PDW

What you are basically describing is sold by Lee Valley here in the upover side of the world. Slightly different profile, a little cheaper than you propose, not as low at the minimum size (could be sawn narrower I suppose) but pretty much the same height at the upper end as you proposed.

They also have preformed metal Toolbox Trays that are perfect for sandpaper sheets that move beyond the drawer kit idea into the prefabricated end. Not customizable though and more spendy.

Pete

In terms of price it can be hard to compete. I needed storage for taps and dies etc.
I was going to build some drawers and a cabinet then I priced a toolbox at repco.
A 3 drawer metal unit designed to go on the base of a mechanics toolbox was approx 110.
Approx size 600 x 250 x 40 each drawer.
Fine for the purpose and cheaper than the materials.
Regards
David

The beauty and appeal of wooden drawers lies with... that they are made of solid wood and smell of wood and and look like wood and feel like wood and sound like wood. For me, plastic or Aluminum sides would spoil that feeling. And once that "all wood" appeal is gone, why not go for ball bearing extension runners that let you open the drawer for the full length. Chris

Originally Posted by racer123

In terms of price it can be hard to compete. I needed storage for taps and dies etc.
I was going to build some drawers and a cabinet then I priced a toolbox at repco.
A 3 drawer metal unit designed to go on the base of a mechanics toolbox was approx 110.
Approx size 600 x 250 x 40 each drawer.
Fine for the purpose and cheaper than the materials.
Regards
David

Good thread. I went through the same investigation looking for a great method to store wood turning tools, chucks and my range of ER collets & Vermec Collet Chucks. I'm tending towards ply carcasses with Elco or Duraslide drawer sliders but the cost soon mounts.

Mechanics tool chests soon look good but don't lock the key inside as one Forumite found out at Proserpine Turnout.

Originally Posted by Michael G

Questions

• Would something like this be of interest to people; more importantly once costs are amortised, we would expect it to sell for around $20 to $30 per metre - would you buy it?

Yes depending on the price

Originally Posted by Michael G

• Can you see your friends buying it at that price?

No because none of them are interested in metal/wood work.

Originally Posted by Michael G

• Is the "kit of parts" idea reasonable? Would we need to also sell things like bases and slides to make it an attractive thing to make?

I think kits would be the way to go, most of us probably have benches etc that have wastes space under them.

Originally Posted by Michael G

• Is distribution via a web site something that people are comfortable with or does there need to be a bricks and mortar presence? (dispatch of goods would be via Auspost probably, so material would be send out as metre lengths. Larger orders could be sent via couriers which may allow longer lengths)

Look how much we buy from the web now, Ebay, overseas, most people don't think twice now.

Hi Michael

I think you have come up with a great idea, but ...


http://www.leevalley.com/en/Hardware...614,43616&ap=2

or

http://www.leevalley.com/en/Wood/pag...37&cat=1,43326

My thoughts are that if I could have walked into a local shop and purchased the Lee Valley sides, they'd have had a good few hundred of my dollars; however that's assuming the prices are roughly compatible.

If a comparable product gets the 'Australia Tax' added to it -ie the Lee Valley price is roughly $10/meter converted to A$, but if it ended up locally priced at $25/meter, you've just made me upgrade to roller slides off ebay, as that will provide a superior action with less cost.

The instant it feels like I am being gouged on price compared to the rest of the world, the attractiveness of the product disappears.