X-3 or 7550 Mill

**seafurymike** · 17th February 2009, 11:06 AM

I'm looking at purchasing a mill and I would like some opinions on either mill (X-3 & ZX7550), peoples preferences, why they like either unit over the other, etc.

ZX-7550 Turret mill (Pro and Con)

1. Big - I have ample room
2. Rigidity - Allows for accurate cutting, quite rigid
3. CNC Can be done, but will be a big job and will cost a lot, plus would need servo's
4. Price - I can get this for the same price as an X-3 fully CNC'd
5. Table - good size, will do quite a lot of the work I anticipate I would need it for
6. tooling - required and would add to cost

X-3 (Pro and Con)

1. Small - Fits in workshop, but may limit some work
2. Rigidity - Not as good as the 7550 but can be strengthened
3. CNC - good knowledge on this and many parts/kits. Would end up with a CNC mill that would probably go 80% of what I want. The big stuff I could complete at trade school on the bridgeport I suppose

4. Price - as mentioned, could probably CNC for the same price as the 7550.
5. Table - limiting but could suffice
6. Tooling - Less required if i go down the CNC path. Same cost really if I bought the 7550.

My idea is t buy the X-3 and CNC the table. Add strength to the areas that require it, such as the Z-Post. I would look at lapping the ways maybe as i hear they are not as good as they should be.

I would like to keep this unit (the one that I choose) for the course of my machining life.
So the little extra cost now is minimal in the long run.

/Michael

**bollie7** · 17th February 2009, 01:03 PM

Michael
I suppose you really have to work out what you want to use it for.
Are you new to using a mill?
What do you want to make that requires cnc?
If you have a specific type of project in mind that will fit on the small machine, then that might be the way to go , but if you have a range of projects, both on the "to do" list and some that you haven't even thought of yet then the larger machine would be my choice. You can always CNC it later if you need to.
I suppose I'm trying to say IMHO "bigger is better" but thats looking at it from my perspective. I trained as a Fitter & Machinist and I have never really used small machines ( as in hobby type stuff) I have a lathe at home which is about the size of this one https://www.machineryhouse.com.au/Pr...stockCode=L180 except mine is about 1980 vintage with a belt drive head. It only has a No2 Morse taper in the tailstock which I find to be a real pain. Overall the machine is not a bad machine for its size but I hope one day to move up to a bigger machine. Something that I can put a decent cut on with a carbide.
I also have an old H&F bridgeport clone mill which is now enjoying a semi retirement after 20 years in a small jobbing shop.

Have you considered looking around for a used mill like a BP or clone. The H&F stuff from the 80's seems to be ok. Mine had a few minor things that needed fixing, I bought a new table long travel nut for it (cheaper to buy a new nut than buy the material to make one) it has a bit of wear in the table ways but not too bad. It cost me about $1000 3 years ago.

keeps us posted on your decision

regards
bollie7

**seafurymike** · 17th February 2009, 02:51 PM

Thanks for the reply bollie,

I have looked at my requirements and I believe that an X-3 would suffice.
In all the years I have used the BP, I can't ever remember machining anything larger than 300mm.

The downside would of course be that I can't take as much off in one go, but I think i can live with that.

/M

**bollie7** · 17th February 2009, 07:00 PM

Sounds like you have made your decision. Also sounds like you are an old hand at machining.

Years ago I had the pleasure of using several Colchester lathes (mastiff 1800's, master 1600 [I think] and then later an almost new Triumph 2000) Some will say that they are not the best lathe in the world, and that may be true, but they were the best that I have ever used. So for years I have aspired to owning one myself. Not because I need a lathe like that, but just because it would be nice to have one.
Anyway after reading about the Haas TL1 on this thread http://www.chaski.org/homemachinist/...=137198#137198
I've changed what I aspire to. Sounds like it would be a nice toy to have.

I can understand why you are looking at the CNC variety of the X-3

Post up some pics when you get what you get will you?

regards
bollie7

**.RC.** · 18th February 2009, 12:00 AM

Originally Posted by bollie7

and then later an almost new Triumph 2000) Some will say that they are not the best lathe in the world, and that may be true,

Now you weren't looking in my direction then Bollie were you???

[quote]
Anyway after reading about the Haas TL1 on this thread http://www.chaski.org/homemachinist/...=137198#137198
I've changed what I aspire to. Sounds like it would be a nice toy to have.[quote]

I don't want to send this off topic too much but I find what I would like changing all the time..

Initially I wanted a Triumph 2000..Then you start reading US forums and you realised that something like a Pacemaker would be a much better machine, but of course there are none of them in Oz so you want a Dean, Smith and Grace which probably are among some of the best lathes ever produced but they never come up very often..Graziano come up as a quality manufacturer as well and then there is Mazak, Mori Seikei, Hollsbrook, Sheraton, Nuttall, and probably a heap others who made good machines..

Now my supplier looks like he will soon have a Hare and Forbes CL68A coming up for sale soon, second hand in excellent condition and has hinted strongly at it being perfect for me..I initially thought no then rethought yes and am currently back to the no stage as it is not what I want...

The problem is I don't know what I want....Well I do but what I want is unaffordable..

So I will probably stick with my AL1000C and New Visby 17-26 for the time being..

**bollie7** · 18th February 2009, 08:26 AM

First,
Michael
My apologies for the apparent thread hijack, not intended to be such.

[quote=.RC.;898973]Now you weren't looking in my direction then Bollie were you???

[quote]

Hah Hah, Not when I wrote that, but now that I think about it you did say something along those lines at one stage I think. The perceived "goodness" of a machine is all relative isn't it? Before I had the chance to use the Colchesters, most of the lathes I had used had been worn out lumps of c**p that every man and his dog had used for years, with no one doing any maint on them. So using a Colchester in good cond was a real revelation for me. Hence my lust for one. I didn't know what I was missing

.
In reality I probably will never own a Colchester, good or bad, let alone a Haas. You need something to dream about though aay?

have nice one everyone

bollie7

**blackfrancis** · 18th February 2009, 12:14 PM

I've read claims that the X3 has a bad design flaw in the verticle post not being rigidly attached to the base. i.e. bad flaw in terms of a machine for its size and class. I've never used one so I don't know any details or how accurate these claims are.

Another small machine that could be worth considering is the DM15 sold by Standaco in Melbourne. This machine has a proper knee. I've not used one and would be interested to here the pros and cons from anyone that knows.

**seafurymike** · 18th February 2009, 12:27 PM

Thanks for the feedback guys.

I have bitten the bullet and I have ordered the following machine.
Frans did a good deal on this.

/Michael

**Big Shed** · 18th February 2009, 01:09 PM

Originally Posted by seafurymike

Thanks for the feedback guys.

I have bitten the bullet and I have ordered the following machine.
Frans did a good deal on this.

/Michael

That looks like an intersting setup Michael, can you give some details?

What, where, how much etc?

**seafurymike** · 18th February 2009, 02:09 PM

Hi Fred,

Haven't spoken to you in a while.

www.toolmach.com.au
Speak with Frans and mention I sent you.

I chose this unit as it comes fitted.
Okay the ball screw is rolled, not ground, but they have used double balls for backlash.

My take on it is, that it's like the Super X3 (though not a Sieg), fitted with CNC.
Takes an R8 spindle, which is great as they are readily available, especially in auctions.

It also just plugs into the parallel port and is compatible with Mach3, which I use on my other machines. All pulses are generated via the internal electronics, so need to fit smooth stepper.

Also nice is the 1Kw high frequency spindle, which is like the X3 i believe. COntrol it from Mach.

Will set you back a little as they retail at Aus$6800 from memory. Check the site.
He is out of Canberra (Well NSW technically) as it Queanybeyan.

**John H** · 19th February 2009, 07:45 PM

Nice machine. I have the X4+ which I got off Frans (it was handy him being local )

.

**seafurymike** · 19th February 2009, 11:29 PM

Great John,

Anything i should know about them?
I am going to go up to Canberra and pick up the 2 units. Should be able to do it in a day from Melbourne.

I would have loved to get the 24000 spindle, but have to stop some where.

**John H** · 20th February 2009, 02:52 PM

Clean her off with some kero and, make sure you tighten all the gibbs for all the axis. For the Z axis you have to loosen off the bottom screw the same amount you want to tighten the top one (took me a while to figure that one out).

I put a couple of hinges on the back panel as the wires are only just long enough to move it to the side. Without hinges you have to juggle the back panel and try and do what you need.

I also put covers over the Z and Y axis.

Other than that, it's been working pretty well for me. What tooling are you getting to go with it?

**seafurymike** · 20th February 2009, 03:20 PM

John,

I think i'm going to buy my tooling locally. The pack that Frans sells has a lot in it and i don't feel I will use a lot of it. Given it is R8, second hand spares should be readily available.

Any chance of a couple of pics of you mod that you mentioned, like the hinges and covers.
Did you make the covers or buy them. If bought can you advise me of the source for them?

/M

**John H** · 20th February 2009, 03:33 PM

The axis covers info is here https://www.woodworkforums.com/f65/axis-protection-87592

and photos of hinges are attached

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