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  1. #136
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    Dec 2010
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    Syd
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    232

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    That oil window, is it plastic or glass? Maybe a bit of elbow grease and brasso might deliver a result. Loving all those bevel gears.

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  3. #137
    Dave J Guest

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    Quote Originally Posted by cj2025 View Post
    Here is the mill I recently acquired. A g3616. I'm looking forward to improving the runout and hoping that Dave's mods will help do the trick.

    Hi CJ,
    Your right, he did look after this mill. I have seen some getting sold over here that have surface rust all over them. Nice pickup at a third of the new price. you really got a bargain. R8 tooling is cheap and widely available unlike NT30 over here. Have you made chips with it yet? Also is that a 800mm table or a 1000mm one?

    Dave

  4. #138
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Location
    Melbourne
    Age
    54
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    380

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    Quote Originally Posted by Hunch View Post
    That oil window, is it plastic or glass? Maybe a bit of elbow grease and brasso might deliver a result. Loving all those bevel gears.
    G'day Hunch,
    The oil windows are plastic and unfortunately one of them was broken. I'll just plug the broken one with an old sump plug for now and replace them all when I manage to source some new ones.
    Cheers,
    Greg.

  5. #139
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    Location
    Perth WA
    Age
    71
    Posts
    5,650

    Default Thiel Spindle

    Greg,

    Any chance of enlightenment regarding the 158 spindle taper. I thought they were 4 Morse but obviously not. A search for DIN 6341 Typ 386E reveals a conventional type pull collet.

    Zugspannzangen DIN 6341 Typ 386E - Werkzeugmaschinen & Maschinenzubehör von Top-Maschinen.de

    G and M Tools in the UK have a Thiel 27mm horizontal arbor but it appears to have a 4 Morse taper.

    And I thought ISO30 DIN 2080 was difficult to find.

    BT

  6. #140
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Location
    Narnia
    Posts
    113

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    Hi Kwijibo99,
    thats certainly a beautifull milling machine.
    I'm not sure what accessories the 158 would have originally been furnished with, ie high speed heads, slotting heads, rotary tables etc
    but did you score any of these as well for it?

  7. #141
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    Mar 2009
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    Melbourne
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    54
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    380

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    Hi Bob,
    You're spot on. The later 158's actually had an MT5 spindle into which an MT4 sleeve with a hollow threaded end was inserted and retained with a hollow drawbar and conventional MT4 tooling could then be used. MT5 tooling could only be used if it had the threaded end onto which the hollow drawbar could be threaded. It seems a little clumsy to me but I'm sure there was solid German logic behind the design.

    The early 158's had the same taper as the 58 horizontal spindle which is very similar in design to a lathe collet spindle (the vertical spindle was smaller).
    The DIN 6341 Typ 386E (B32) collets are (I think) originally a Weiler standard with 32mm shank, 20deg Taper, 45mm face and 32x1.5 thread.
    The Thiel collets are 31mm shank, 20deg Taper, 45mm face and 31x18TPI thread, The spindle is therefore 31mm bore with a shallow 40deg included taper.
    I am not aware of a Thiel lathe but I can only guess that this design was selected so the mill and a lathe could use common collets.
    The attached pic is of some collets, MT adaptors and a horizontal arbour on ebay de at the moment (wont ship out of the EU ) and a drawing of an MT adaptor I stumbled across on the web. Aparently Thiel were originaly marketed in the US as Sentinel.
    I have been looking for a month or so now and they do come up on ebay de, it's just a matter of finding some that will ship to Australia. I will have a crack at making up some MT adaptors in the near future so I am not that concerned but it would be nice to get an original set one day.

    Brian,
    There was an array of accessories produced for the 158 including slotting head, high speed attachment, auto feed head, universal dividing head, rotary tables, spiral milling attachment and several table types among others. Unfortunately my machine didn't come with any of these except for the universal table.
    But to be honest I wasn't going to knock back a nice mill just because it didn't come with all the bells & whistles and if I got all these attachments in one hit what would I have left to search for . (I forgot to bid on a nice Adcock & Shipley rotary table I was watching that sold very cheap a month or so ago I hope someone on here got it)
    Cheers,
    Greg.

  8. #142
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Location
    Pleasanton, CA USA
    Posts
    23

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    Hey Dave,
    The table is an 800mm and yes, I have made some chips. Just a simple indicator holder for the lathe so I can use the 4 jaw and zero the dial without having the needle jump like it does in the magnetic base. I know indicating down to the tenths is overkill for at home work but I enjoy it. I guess I also made some adapter brackets for the flatsrcreen TV I mounted on the wall, then had it power coated to match. I tossed my project in with a work batch at no extra charge. Also a few other small things as well. Once I'm done fiddling with the down-feed and spindle I'm going to make a tool rest and another for sharpening end mills. This will require me to spend a good amount of time making chips and building some experience.
    -cj

  9. #143
    Dave J Guest

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    Hi CJ,
    I get a bit that way with my 4 jaw, your projects sound interesting, don't forget to post up some of you projects because we all like looking at pictures.

    Dave

  10. #144
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Location
    Melbourne
    Posts
    7,775

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by kwijibo99 View Post
    The later 158's actually had an MT5 spindle into which an MT4 sleeve with a hollow threaded end was inserted and retained with a hollow drawbar and conventional MT4 tooling could then be used. MT5 tooling could only be used if it had the threaded end onto which the hollow drawbar could be threaded. It seems a little clumsy to me but I'm sure there was solid German logic behind the design.
    How about this. You can knock the MT4 about of a few years changing tools 50 times a day. Then one day you carefully change the MT5-MT4 and its like having a new spindle?
    Yes yes I know we are all very careful and would never put a dirty taper in a spindle, but then most of us aren't making a living from it.

    I'd like to know what those bolts are for also.

    Stuart

  11. #145
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Location
    Melbourne
    Posts
    44

    Default

    Well here's my contribution to this thread.
    First up is a Nichols horizontal mill, it's the Heavy Production model. They were also available as a Toolroom version with leadscrews instead of the pneumatic cylinders, a Light Production model using rack and pinion levers, and a couple of different configurations using two spindles for production purposes. There is a section about them on the Lathes website Page Title.
    The mill is in great condition and still has all the scraping marks on the slides, no damage to the table apart from old surface rust which has etched in to the top a bit, the spindle and gear motor are very quiet which makes it a lot more pleasant to operate than the old Cincinnati 0-8 production mill that I used to use (too many straight cut gears in that thing ).
    Bought it on Ebay a few months ago and have since acquired a couple of extra Nichols arbors, a reproduction of the manual, the hydraulic unit for controlling the down feed, and a vertical head which I posted about in another thread.
    It has 16 speeds (60rpm-2875rpm), which are changed by swapping the pulleys to different shafts, low range is achieved by mounting either pulley on the top counter shaft and engaging the back gears by pulling the ring back on the bottom shaft.
    You can program simple operations by using the 16 toggle switches on the side, ie head down - table forward - table back - head up - wait for start. Couldn't get a very good picture of the control panel as the mill sits close to a small cylindrical grinder and both of them are too bloody heavy to move for a picture .
    I'll post some pics of my other mills when I get the chance.
    Attachment 197838
    Attachment 197839
    Attachment 197840
    Attachment 197841
    Attachment 197842
    Attachment 197843

  12. #146
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Location
    Melbourne
    Posts
    44

    Default

    Next up, Tweedle Dee and Tweedle Dum my Schaublin 13 universal mills.
    The one on the left originally came from Monash Uni physics dept, not sure about the older history of the right hand one, I bought it off a mate. I've had them both about 4-5 years. Both are in pretty good condition apart from some tool damage to the tables , that happened before I got them.
    They both have the universal tilting table, vertical head, high speed head, universal dividing head and tailstock, horizontal arbor and support bracket. The one from Monash has the helical milling attachment which is the box on the right hand side of the table, there are a bunch of change gears for it too, it can be removed and replaced with the lead screw handle but it's a PITA so I leave it on. I've also got the original Schaublin vise and the universal vise which is really handy (that's the one on the table of the left machine). The vise has a barrel arrangement so that it can be angled to 90 degrees or anywhere in between and it has a lock pin for 0, 45, and 90.
    Got an oil leak on the left one at the moment, it's coming from the top of the vertical leadscrew that operates the table, not looking forward to pulling all that apart
    Attachment 197918
    Attachment 197919
    Attachment 197920
    Attachment 197921

  13. #147
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    Location
    Perth WA
    Age
    71
    Posts
    5,650

    Default

    A pair!

    Gary, how about some more intimate snapshots of the universal dividing head and the seldom seen, universal vise?

    BT

  14. #148
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Location
    Melbourne
    Posts
    44

  15. #149
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Location
    Melbourne
    Posts
    44

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    Couple more

    The shafts and gears for the dividing head are a bit different, they use a tri-lobe instead of a keyway or spline, not sure how easy that would be to make, glad I'm not missing any

    Attachment 197934

    Attachment 197935

    Attachment 197936

    Attachment 197937

  16. #150
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Location
    Narnia
    Posts
    113

    Default

    Hi Gary,
    You've got some beautifull machines in that little workshop, - Des speaks highly of that little schaublin you have there. By the way how is his "internet revolution" progressing?

    GM

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