Thread: my first mill

Aaron,
No pics posted yet, so it didn't really happen.
However there will be pics.

Actually it was on the step outside the shed (heavily tarped) for weeks while a massive reorganisation happened inside just to get it in. Now it is time to clean and consider. I really think I should pull off the slides and excavate chips etc before dealing with the 3 phase issue.

Back to your mill - as you imply, a single phase motor would be a disappointment from the moment you switched it on. Been there recently.

Cheers,
Bill

Originally Posted by azzrock

hi again,
i haven't started to get my mill running yet. i didnt have any cutting tool holders ect.
that was until the other day.
thanks to another member here i now have a handful of collets. so ill have to get on with
it. well not only collets i also have a few new attachments for the fp1.
a indexing head. internal angled high speed head.
there is a few photos once ive cleaned them up more ill take more.
the indexing head seems to big for the little mill but feels just like
a deckel when you turn it.
i suppose the next job will be to insure the motor is connected right for
a vfd and find a spot. maybe clean out the coolant tank check oil levels ect..
aaron
Attachment 290772Attachment 290771

I've come very late to your thread and have just briefly skimmed across it, Wow you've got yourself some very nice toy's & accessories there. The angling spindle head is a beauty and I hope you get it back operational again very soon- if you have cause to pull the articulation/ spindle nose apart to rectify that "seized" thing, I'd be real keen to see some pics of that. Doe's the faceplate in your photo's (by the base of the mill) attach to the spindle nose of your indexing head (making a rotary table out of it) or does that belong to something else?.
Thanks mate.

g,day Brian how are you?
it seems to be a great machine hope fully it will all be up and running soon.
the good news is the angling spindle head is no longer seized. it was the motor end that was
seized and i got it turning. i still have to find a drive belt for it.
The faceplate does fit on to the rotary table. nice hay.
ill take a few more photos of the angle head for you.
aaron

I've actually got one of the face plate/tables albeit mine lacks the slots of the deckle pattern one, I just wanted to check that was indeed what it was. Mine fits my Riken RTM-2 (Japanese fp1 clone) and I believe it was intended that holes should be drilled and tapped in its surface to facilitate work holding, however mine example is still virgin and just quietly I'm too chicken to defile it. My plan to remedy this is to turn a replica and instead progressively turn this one into Swiss cheese - however as always it finding the time. Another attachment I've got for my indexing head is the self centring 2-jaw chuck and its sooo bloody handy, it offers so much utility (the pictured punch milling attachment, not so much however give it time i'm sure it will find an application for which it was not originally designed . & good news re the spindle head.

hi those bits look great. where will you get the cast iron to make the new plate from?
the vice tools strong. whats a punch milling attachment?

I'm actually a metal fabricator by trade, so I'd likely fab it up rather than cast it - weld a boss onto a heavy piece of plate and then go about machining and truing it up. Although I'm sure it someone went to the trouble and were to cast a nice version of the faceplates, I'm certain there would be a market and they would sell. The punch milling attachment can be offset from the centre of the indexing heads spindle axis via its dovetailed slide, the graduations on the slide are pretty coarse however I'd be pretty confident that they could visually broken up to within +/- .003" (it's imperially graduated - I imagine they had exports markets in mind when it was manufactured back in 1966), from memory it's probably got 1.500" of total slide offset and is bit of an odd arrangement (looking at item 5): The female top half of the dovetail will slide freely by fingers which allows coarse adjustment. The knurled knob on the end of the slide (lower half) is a lead screw which traverses internally a floating threaded block, * the knurled thumbwheel on the side which is located in the top half then screws in and clamps against the floating block anywhere against its length this permits a fine adjustment. The square shaft pictured controls a cam which rigidly clamps/locks both movement of the slide & rotation of little turn table on top (which in the case of the Riken is graduated, unlike the fp1 accessory)

is the riken mill just the same as a fp1? is it a mk4 spindle
aaron

Hi Azz,

With regards to Ray G's suggestion of using a 240 to 415 volt step up transformer....

I've kicked this around a bit as a setup for my Hardinge mill, which has a similar two speed motor to your Deckel.

I'm sure transformers are available to do this, they just don't seem common to me.

Which set me on a path of considering a 240v VFD and three 240v/240v isolation transformers. The primary side of each transformer would be set up between two phases of the VFD output such that they were all delta connected. The output side of the transformers could then be wired up in star. This would give 415 volts.

A quick search of ebay US found lots of transformers but mostly 115v. Pricing was not unreasonable although freight was not cheap. Total cost about $1k.

Not sure about the performance of transformers at other than standard frequency so possibly not much speed control from the 240v VFD. I guess if need be you could use a 415V VFD between the transformers and the motor.

Cheers

The Beryl Bloke

ok Atfer some discussions with a guy i work with today he said there is 3 phase 2 speed motors configured
in the normal stor or delta manor.
find one of these thats another option.
Another thing regarding the single speed vfd option that i have been given some thought is.
Regarding the loss of toque at the lower hz. I think some and maybe a substantial amount
is due to my preference for bargain basement no name drive units. which defiantly have there
appeal. maybe spending a bit more how ever painful that may be is the smart and cost efective
path to chose.
i really do wish the the $200 buck drive is a s good as the say$650 drive but whats the chance.


bb im not shore about the step up transformer idea but do really appreciate the input.

Originally Posted by azzrock

i really do wish the the $200 buck drive is a s good as the say$650 drive but whats the chance.

Now if you're talking about spending that sort of cash then you could just about(havent looked at prices lately) buy a modified TECO from DD. 240V single in 415V 3 phase out. Then forget all this new motor, rewiring, pulleys and stuffing about.

Not sure about the tranformer idea, tramformers dont like PWM I'm told..Don't VSD's use PWM?......I had a look for 240 isolation tranformers, 600VA ones run about $200. Pretty sure there output varies with Freq. Interesting idea though.

Stuart

any way it wont be happening for a week or two.
does any one in melbourne own a planner big
enough for a small mill table?

Hi Stuart,

As far as I know VFD's do use Pulse Width Modulation. If the output is unfiltered pulses i.e. square waves, then a transformer would probable not like it very much at all. Probably your motor won't be exactly enthralled either. The odd order harmonics in the wave form will cause a lot of heating. Very few transformers will have a linear input to output ratio across a wide frequency range and if they do they will be expensive. The question really comes down to how well the VFD smooths it's output. Although this is all theoretical as I have not actually tried this approach. Not that expensive to have a go - 3 transformers at $200 ea gives you 1800VA plus a VFD. If it doesn't work then there is always fleabay to dispose of the gear.

Cheers

The Beryl Bloke

Originally Posted by Stustoys

Now if you're talking about spending that sort of cash then you could just about(havent looked at prices lately) buy a modified TECO from DD. 240V single in 415V 3 phase out. Then forget all this new motor, rewiring, pulleys and stuffing about.

Not sure about the tranformer idea, tramformers dont like PWM I'm told..Don't VSD's use PWM?......I had a look for 240 isolation tranformers, 600VA ones run about $200. Pretty sure there output varies with Freq. Interesting idea though.

Stuart

Originally Posted by azzrock

any way it wont be happening for a week or two.
does any one in melbourne own a planner big
enough for a small mill table?

Surely a grinder would be a better option? How big is the table, i'm sure Phil F's grinder would do it. I'm a bit far away.....

Ew

Originally Posted by Ueee

Surely a grinder would be a better option? How big is the table, i'm sure Phil F's grinder would do it. I'm a bit far away.....

Ew

hi ew i get your point. IM just working thru some options and a lot of people would totally agree.
i believe but am not totally shore that the tables were finished with a planner at the factory..
well that's what ive been reading on some other forum.
the table is roughly 600 by 200 mm.
Im not shore if i know phil. ill get in touch and see what he thinks
thanks ew