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Thread: Motor Issue

  1. #31
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    There used to be a category called an occupiers licence, that allowed you to work on your own premises. But that got canned a few years back.

    There is a difference between things which are permanently connected to the mains like power points and permanent lighting fixtures, but for applicances that plug into power points the rules are a little different.

    I haven't been able to find out for victoria, but in Western Australia you don't need a licence to replace or repair "plug and cable" applicances.

    Anyone know what the situation is in Victoria regarding plug and cable appliances, it would be interesting, since obviously that would apply in this case.

    Edit: Hmm... sorry not good news..
    http://www.esv.vic.gov.au/Portals/0/...0equipment.pdf


    Regards
    Ray

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  3. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by azzrock View Post
    In Vic if a sparky wants to charge money for electrical wiring ect he has to have a contractors
    license. how ever if a A grade sparky does not charge for the work ie a love job. They
    only needs the license but must put in the certification of electrical safety.
    Its over the top In your own house if you know how or are suitably trained why
    shouldn't you do it. were not even ment to change a light fitting.
    Some have claimed you shouldnt replace a fuse yourself(though I'm not sure how true that one is)
    As I understood it, even for love jobs the sparky needed to pay an extra $1500 odd a year above his license to be able to get things inspected and be issued a "certification of electrical safety" (I wonder if the goverment is opening themself(us) up to being sued when it goes wrong?). Though this info would be 5+ years old, not to long after this all came in. So maybe I'm out of date or missunderstood something or my memory is going lol.

    Quote Originally Posted by azzrock View Post
    stu is it your mill that you run of a vfd.
    Yeap. along with a few other things.

    Stuart

  4. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stustoys View Post
    Some have claimed you shouldnt replace a fuse yourself(though I'm not sure how true that one is)
    No, you are allowed to replace a fuse..

    Quoting from http://www.esv.vic.gov.au/LinkClick....d=480&mid=2080

    Section 4(1)(c) of the Electricity Safety Act 1998
    Electrical work
    Divisions 1, 2 and 3 (with the exception of section 43) of Part 3 of the Act do not have
    effect in relation to the following electrical installation work –
    Electrical installation work –
    (a) on any electrical installation in the process of manufacture at a place other than
    the land where it is to be fixed;
    (b) on any electrical installation in the course of repair or maintenance at a place
    other than the land where it is to be fixed;
    (c) involving the insertion or removal of –


    (i) a plug into or from a socket designed for such a plug; or


    (ii) a light globe, fluorescent tube or starter for a fluorescent tube, where
    access to live parts is not required; or


    (iii) a fuse element.

    Still looking for other exemptions... if your lathe was less than 18kg and easily portable, or on wheels, you could claim it under the category of "easily transportable equipment" and thus not be subject to the regulations relating to fixed wiring.

    Regards
    Ray

  5. #34
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    Default Electrical licensing

    Hi everyone,

    Just a couple of questions to those who advocate working on their own house etc without a ticket ....

    How will you know that what you have done meets the requirements of AS/NZ 3000 and in particular the testing section?

    Do you know what a polarity test is, how to do one and own the relevant test equipment?

    More importantly do you understand the consequences of getting polarity wrong?

    If you can't answer the first question, maybe you should not be playing with electrical wiring.

    If you can't answer the second two questions, then I'd very strongly suggest you not work on electrical wiring.

    Cheers

    The Beryl Bloke
    Equipment er.... Projects I own

    Lathes - Sherline 4410 CNC
    Mills - Deckel FP2LB, Hardinge TM-UM, Sherline 2000 CNC.

  6. #35
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    Hi BerylBloke,

    I agree with the sentiments you are expressing, but, there are a lot of us, who know what we are doing, and know how to work safely. Never take anything for granted.

    I've spent 30 years working alongside electricians, I design and build control systems, a lot of VFD based motor control. My son Josh built switchboards for a number of years, mostly large stuff, and my son-in-law is a fully qualified motor rewinder.

    It irks me no end, when I can't legally do some simple job, and the only electrical contractors that you can find locally are household electrical contractor types that know absolutely nothing about 3 phase motor control. Not that they are incompetent, it's just outside their range of experience.

    Like some others who've already posted, I'd say my installation standards are generally much higher than you'd get from a general electrical contractor.

    I'd like it if they re-instated the owner class of license, but I fear that horse has bolted...

    There are plenty of others on the forum who, I'm sure have more experience. Reading between the lines, I'd say you might be an industrial electrician by trade.

    Regards
    Ray

    PS as far as polarity testing goes, I've seen molded IEC power leads with neutral/earth reversed.... imagine what happens when you plug that into a power point with active/neutral reversed.

  7. #36
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    When they built the new premises that I now work in, we had problems with the power. The fluro lights would flicker and change in brightness for no apparent reason. After putting up with it for about a year, we had an electrician come out to see "what we were all on about"

    It turns out that where the power was connected from the street, they somehow forgot to connect neutral.

    Seems even the "experts" can't do electrical work properly at times!

    Simon
    Girl, I don't wanna know about your mild-mannered alter ego or anything like that." I mean, you tell me you're, uh, super-mega-ultra-lightning babe? That's all right with me. I'm good. I'm good.

  8. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by RayG View Post
    PS as far as polarity testing goes, I've seen molded IEC power leads with neutral/earth reversed.... imagine what happens when you plug that into a power point with active/neutral reversed.
    These power leads probably came from China. To understand how this can so easily happen, one has to know that in many countries polarity in IEC cables does indeed not matter. Take for example the German DIN connector, it can be inserted in two ways into the wall socket. It is intentionally designed this way. This is perfectly safe, because in Europe they use circuit breakers that break BOTH the Neutral and Phase wires. In appliances they also use switches that cut both the Neutral and the Phase. For this reason, IEC cables may use two black wires for Phase and Neutral and a yellow/green for the Earth.

    Here in Australia we still use the simpler and cheaper circuit breakers that only cut the Phase, and appliances are still allowed to have switches that only cut the Phase. And this is why in Australia (and New Zealand) "polarity" matters. One day this may change, but for now "polarity" matters, because for this system to be safe it is necessary to strictly observe polarity. And because of this, wire colors in IEC cables matter too. And one should not put an Australian connector onto an European IEC cable with two black wires. And this is also why in Australian Hospitals only IEC cables with a clear transparent connector are used: because you can see at a glance, if the wires have been attached reversed at the factory that makes the cables. Chris

  9. #38
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    The electrician from work replaced all my fuses with circuit breakers and fitted an RCD switch. He messed around for about 2 hours then said the RCD must be faulty. I had sourced all the parts myself. He then read the instructions. He deals with this stuff in single and 3ph all the time.

    Dean

  10. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by Theberylbloke View Post
    .............How will you know that what you have done meets the requirements of AS/NZ 3000 and in particular the testing section?.....

    Cheers

    The Beryl Bloke
    As far as I remember, the standard simply talks about these jobs being done by a "suitably qualified person". I would think that for example an electrical engineer is suitably qualified to wire his own home, even if not in possession of a sparky ticket.

  11. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by RayG View Post
    I'd like it if they re-instated the owner class of license, but I fear that horse has bolted...
    I'm afraid you're right which is strange being that now all work has to be inspected. But who inspects the inspectors?

    Stuart

  12. #41
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    Default green steam

    stu they dont check all work. they do random checks and check new connections plus solar connections.
    If they checked all work that would mean every time a faulty switch was replaced in a factory.
    they would have to live there

  13. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by cba_melbourne View Post
    As far as I remember, the standard simply talks about these jobs being done by a "suitably qualified person". I would think that for example an electrical engineer is suitably qualified to wire his own home, even if not in possession of a sparky ticket.
    Not in vic. Or do any wiring or instillation.
    I think maybe there good to fault find and
    change a faulty component. with a NREL
    licance
    I think they require "suitably trained" poeple
    the preferred training a 4 year apprenticeship.
    All this only counts if something goes wrong.
    other wise no one cares.
    I think we need deregulation of the electrical
    industry.
    it all quite simply just about protecting
    employment
    aaron

  14. #43
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    The problem with deregulation is people like those who did there own wiring in what is now our house. Active neutrals mixed up everywhere, 12v lights wired up with 4 core single strand telephone wire, power points hooked into the hws and stove circuits.....and to top it off one of the fuses must of kept blowing so they replaced the fuse wire with a bit of copper wire.

    Ew
    1915 17"x50" LeBlond heavy duty Lathe, 24" Queen city shaper, 1970's G Vernier FV.3.TO Universal Mill, 1958 Blohm HFS 6 surface grinder, 1942 Rivett 715 Lathe, 14"x40" Antrac Lathe, Startrite H225 Bandsaw, 1949 Hercus Camelback Drill press, 1947 Holbrook C10 Lathe.

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    Hi Ewan,
    Quote Originally Posted by Ueee View Post
    The problem with deregulation is people like those who did there own wiring in what is now our house.
    But did those people do said wiring before there was regulation or did they do there own wiring regardless of the regulations?

    Stuart

  16. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stustoys View Post
    Hi Ewan,

    But did those people do said wiring before there was regulation or did they do there own wiring regardless of the regulations?

    Stuart
    It was all done by the people we bought the house off 6 years ago, and they only owned it for a year. So i would say they did it regardless.

    Ew
    1915 17"x50" LeBlond heavy duty Lathe, 24" Queen city shaper, 1970's G Vernier FV.3.TO Universal Mill, 1958 Blohm HFS 6 surface grinder, 1942 Rivett 715 Lathe, 14"x40" Antrac Lathe, Startrite H225 Bandsaw, 1949 Hercus Camelback Drill press, 1947 Holbrook C10 Lathe.

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