Thread: A Novel Idea For Those That Can't Afford A Sensitive Level

I think the point has been missed here: it may not be the best level around and certainly not the most accurate. a bit more attention to suitable materials, along with an understanding of how to use the level, could very well result in a useable device. I'm sure a lot of first attempts left a little to be desired, some probably never worked at all. The attempt is the important part - without that some of the things we now take for granted would never have eventuated!

MEW issue 36 also has an article on making vials by bending glass at 10 arc seconds per 1mm bubble movement... It is surprisingly more complicated then one would think and did not go into the ID accuracy of the glass...

Originally Posted by th62

I think the point has been missed here:

I do not think so.... It is like trying to remake the wheel.. What he made would have been surpassed by technology a hundred years ago or more... Fair enough if it was simply to replicate an old device for historical reasons.. But this is not the case...

Originally Posted by th62

I think the point has been missed here:

Only point that has been missed here, is some you-tube wanna-be. If you dont know enough to turn your sudo level 180 degrees?

I don't know where turning the level 180 degrees relates to this video. I only saw a demonstration of the vial working. I did not see any attempt to to calibrate the level. Why would he need to turn it 180 degrees to show the viewers how the bubble moves in the vial?

So why was this video not very helpful?

Because it does not mention why you level, nor what sensitivity you need for levelling.. It does not mention the importance of heat in levelling, nor does it mention the base of the level (how flat it has to be). As I said he has tried to simplify a subject that is while not complicated, it is more in depth...

Quite true. But he made the video and he put in the video what he wanted to. Obviously these points were outside the scope of his intentions. Why criticise someone because his idea of what to put in a video differ from yours.

He did mention heat and its effect on the level, by the way.

It seems to me that he intended to show how his level worked, mechanically, not how to use it. Maybe that will be covered in a future video.

Dean

Originally Posted by Oldneweng

I don't know where turning the level 180 degrees relates to this video. I only saw a demonstration of the vial working. I did not see any attempt to to calibrate the level.

The standard test to check the "truth" of a level is to adjust it so it is level in one spot then turn it 180 degrees and return it to the same spot. It should read the same. Without showing the results of this test no claims can really be made about how good the level really is because any level that does not repeat it is not much better than a paper weight

Michael

Originally Posted by Machtool

"But I liked it for the above reasons" Cant work wood to save my life, but humour me. If I come up with a gizmo, say 45deg a corner, and I could get the corner with in 1/8 inch of joining up. That would be O/K wouldn't it.

Any way you look at it, this is a gizmo, with its Andy Warhol 15 minutes of fame. Aluminium and Butane. Good luck with that solution. You blokes are just waisting your time with this Mickey Mouse solution's.

I tend to look at an overall. Also consider a persons experince.

It may be the gizmo and the more importantly the principle of the gizmo that is the point. I make prototypes and share them on line. I get some constructive feed back for which I am happy.

Yes it is nice if everything is just 'perfect' or at least very good but it does not all ways need to be the case.

On another note I thank everyone for there practical suggestions and points. I have learnt a lot about a topic that is new to me.

Originally Posted by DaveTTC

I tend to look at an overall. Also consider a persons experince.

It may be the gizmo and the more importantly the principle of the gizmo that is the point. I make prototypes and share them on line. I get some constructive feed back for which I am happy.

Yes it is nice if everything is just 'perfect' or at least very good but it does not all ways need to be the case.

On another note I thank everyone for there practical suggestions and points. I have learnt a lot about a topic that is new to me.

This mirrors my opinion.

Michael. My point is that this video shows a concept. Anything more is up to the individual. My opinion is that there was no intention to prove accuracy. Just to show how it was made and that the bubble centres.

On this subject, How much movement would you expect within the limits of a precision level, in comparison with the .006" used to demo the bubble movement?

Dean

Originally Posted by Oldneweng

It seems to me that he intended to show how his level worked, mechanically, not how to use it. Maybe that will be covered in a future video.

Dean

I could get a few bits of RHS, a couple of pillow block bearings, some allthread and build a metal lathe too.....

IIRC there were articles in HSM years ago on making your own sensitive level. I gave away all my copies so can't chack, but memory tells me the level of sophistication in the HSM one was orders of magnitude greater than this attempt.

I fully agree with the criticism of it. It's a waste of time (and so is the continuation of this thread, most likely).

PDW

Considering this thread is such a waste of time, why on earth would you bother reading it - let alone waste your time on commenting.

The time this fellow spent on this project and the obvious enjoyment he has derived from it makes it 'worth his while'. I thought that was the prime reason for indulging in any hobby. And lets not forget the most important part - he is learning something.

Don't like a particular thread, can see no point in it or see it as a waste of time - all seem like pretty good reasons not to follow or comment. Why post such insulting comments. Why not be constructive, post some helpful criticisms.

Not everyone can afford or justify expenditure on top of the line tools and equipment: one look at his lathe should tell you he is in this bracket.

It appears that Ray's comment was prophetic. lol.

I would like to thank Matthew for posting this link. I found it informative.

Dean

Let’s try coming at this from a different perspective.

Somewhere in the world an amateur horologist (clock maker) makes a simple weight driven clock.
Now the movement might be fairly basic and he might have to tweak it once a week to keep it on time but hey, he’s pretty chuffed with what he has created.
Comes a time he decides to post a little clip of his clock on the web for no other reason than that he can and he believes it might even be of interest to other budding amateur horologists out there. He makes no claim that his clock is incredibly advanced, accurate or innovative nor does he state that it is of a design that should be emulated by others.He simply shows what it is, states the logic behind its design and even highlights its flaws.

Meanwhile, another bloke comes across this clip one day and decides to post a link to the clip on an amateur horological forum that he happens to be a member of.
He reckons it’s not a bad effort despite some flaws and as an example of the craft might be of interest to other forum members.

Turns out he’s right and some of the forum members have alook at the clip and take from it what they will, good bad or indifferent.
However some members pronounce the clip (and post) to be pointless because the design is not what they perceive to be of a suitable standard and is hence worthless.
Rather than a constructive critique of the design of the clock in question what is offered is a condescending if not openly aggressive assessment form a point of superiority.
The original maker is labelled a clown and castigated, how dare this upstart have the nerve to show his amateurish attempt to other like minded people?
Why would anyone waste their time building something so flawed when they could just go and buy one that will do a better job?

And now back to our own humble, fundamentally amateur oriented metalwork forum.
I’m well aware of the expertise and level of knowledge of some of the members here and I keep coming back because I not only learn from but am entertained by the content I find here.
The vast majority of readers and posters do this for a hobby and hang around here to share their experience and learn not only from the successes but also the mistakes and failures of others.
I am more than happy to be corrected when I’m wrong and I’ll be the first to admit that I’ve made my fair share of stuff ups in my time but I’ve learned from most of them.
I’m also grown up enough to take in what I read and see, both on this forum and elsewhere, to filter it, and reach my own conclusions about the merit of one piece of information over another.
What I really don’t need is to be pontificated to, if I did, I’d take up religion.
Nothing stifles innovation and the sharing of knowledge more than hubris and dogma and it saddens me that these traits are emerging here even if only rarely.
it would be to the detriment of all members if it got to the point that people were reluctant to post here because they didn’t want to be exposed to ridicule and name calling.
Of course this is just my two cents, but I hope it's taken in the spirit I wrote it.
Cheers,
Greg.

are some of you missing the point?

To get a lathe level..ie no twist...you dont have to have a level that one needs to spin 180 degree to prove it reads correct.

Rather you just need a level that shows a decent type of movement from a given reference point.

we dont really care that our lathe points backward or froward 1 or two degrees do we?...we want it so that the level reads the same the entire length of the bed...then there is no twist?.

Well Greg, I think your spot on the money there - I hope you are prepared for the backlash though. Unfortunately ridicule and self serving bias are more the norm than humility on this forum and those that display these unfortunate aspects of the personalities tend to stick together like a pack of baying wolves.
I frequent this forum in the hope of learning new things. The expertise of people like Ueee and Anorak Bob to name a few is something to behold; unfortunately, the armchair experts and even some of the seriously gifted on this forum cannot understand not everyone has bundles of cash lying around and not everyone has the desire nor the need to own top of the range tools. And as is patently obvious, not all have the sense to avoid that which they do not enjoy. Funny as it sounds, some people simply enjoy 'reinventing the wheel' or simply just like to enjoy their workshop toys and exercising their noggin.

Originally Posted by th62

Considering this thread is such a waste of time, why on earth would you bother reading it - let alone waste your time on commenting.

I'm bored. My machine shop is 1500+ km away.

Originally Posted by th62

The time this fellow spent on this project and the obvious enjoyment he has derived from it makes it 'worth his while'. I thought that was the prime reason for indulging in any hobby. And lets not forget the most important part - he is learning something.

I think the term you're searching for is 'reinventing the wheel' and doing it poorly.

Originally Posted by th62

Don't like a particular thread, can see no point in it or see it as a waste of time - all seem like pretty good reasons not to follow or comment. Why post such insulting comments. Why not be constructive, post some helpful criticisms.

Not everyone can afford or justify expenditure on top of the line tools and equipment: one look at his lathe should tell you he is in this bracket.

Got it in one. That's me to a T........

PDW