Thread: Face plate fix

Good score.
Thats what I did with a 4 jaw I picked up, only I used 2 4 jaws face to face.
I wouldn't worry about machining the step off, just make sure the face plate is flat against it. If your real worried you could use a torque wrench on each bolt so they are all the pulling the same amount of force.
I used a 0.0001 DTI to set the compound taper up and if you over shoot (real easy I did) just take a face cut.
On one of the forums someone put up the amount needed off the taper for a given distance. I just went by trial and error.
I am not sure what fit your after, but I like a slightly tight fit that needs a bump with a rubber hammer to unseat it so I know it's on the taper properly.

Dave

Just wanted to add,
When you machine the new back plate, make sure you mark the position of the plate to the lathe cam locks so when you take it off to turn it around to try it, you can put it back in the same position it was machined.
In one of my older posts I showed the V punch marks that I put on the lathe spindle and all of my chucks and face plates to align them.

Dave

I meant to say "for a bonus point does anyone want to do the math on how much I have to remove"
I have to give it a few bumps with a rubber hammer to make it fit.(which I hate doing)
I'm not to worried about the fit of the face plate as I cant see a need to be able to remove and refit it maintaining ref. But 'll try for a tight fit just incase one day I need to.
Stuart

p.s. DaveJ did you get my pm?

My cam locks pull mine up and only need one bump with the rubber hammer to remove it. These D14 are supposed to be a little tight on the taper so it aligns it.

If it is only such a small bit you need off, I wouldn't touch it with a tool. I would just bolt it up like you have and use some emery cloth on a piece of dowel to get it down, as it doesn't need much and that will do the job fine.
Mine was the opposite being to loose, but I found after over shooting the mark the next time when I come close, I used emery cloth to take off the final bit.

Dave
Got your PM and I am interested, will send you one.

EDIT
Having a good fitting face plate could come in handy for you in future jobs,
One example is, where you have been machining something on it mounted in the lathe, and then have to take the whole lot mounted over to the mill for another operation, then back on the lathe for finishing. That way everything will line up again.

It can't need much. I'll try the emery first. Good point about marking the pins, I would no doubt have thought of that just after removing it lol
Thanks
Stuart

Stuart,
Your idea looks good to me.

Is the machining aimed to:
- fit the tapers only together,
- provide sufficient longitudinal movement to get the flat end surface of the spindle contacting the flat bottom bore in the recess of the faceplate,
- allow the outer shoulder of the spindle to contact the flat chuck back ?

Your fitting appears to be a D1-3, which would make it the same as mine.

I am interested in the question because I have just placed a chunk of cast iron on the lathe table to be processed into a drive dog faceplate when turning between centres.

The published dimensions and description of a D1-3 spindle don't really inform the reader just where the "sweet spot" of engagement is located - taper, spindle end, shoulder or a combination of these.
It is difficult to get tolerenced drawings of a chuck, and this makes the question of fit problematic

John.

Found it for you Stuart,

The taper of 7.125 degrees is actually a 1 in 8 taper which means that not only will a 0.001" in movement on the cross-slide take off 0.002" on the diameter but the end of the taper will have moved 8 x 0.001" = 0.008" along the axis. That can be very helpful in taper-fitting.

As you can see you dont need much at all.

John,
His is a D1-4
From what I have read the gap before pulling it up should be 0.001 thou
The 9th post down on this page might help you with you D1-3 mount.
trouble with D1-6 spindle nose fit - Practical Machinist - Largest Manufacturing Technology Forum on the Web

Dave

John
Where did you get your chunk of cast(if its not classified), how much?
Where are you getting the pins or are you making them?
On my "one day" list I want to make a ER40 chuck mount, I was thinking about making it in two pieces. one that fits into the MT5 tapper with the back taper of the ER collet in it and the second piece fitted with the camlok that holding the thread for the ER nut. This would give minimum overhang but ATM I'm not sure its worth the extra trouble over what barkersegg made.


Dave
mine is a D1-4? I thought it was a D1-3?I'll have to check lol
Looks like I should do some measuring, at a wag I'd say I have .5mm, but the faceplate hasn't been on for about a year so I might not even be close.
I'd thought about removing it to put on the mill, I made the mistake of thinking "I have nothing you mount it on in the mill" but it could be clamped to the bed.
Stuart

I thought I remember you saying it was a D1-4, but I could be wrong.
The D1-3 pin dia is 14.3 mm with a taper dia of 53.9mm, and the D1-4 pin dia is 15.9mm with a taper dia of 63.5mm to help you work it out. Every size of the D1- has different size pins, so just measure the pins.

With putting it on the mill, you can take out the pins if need be. Having a good fitting taper will realign it back on the lathe and the two flats will sit back together (if marked) the way it was machined so it will all be running true again (in theory at least LOL).

I think the easy way out for the ER to MT is to buy one as their only around $20 off CTC and use a MT to MT adapter like I have, the ones off him are hardened as well.
If your thinking of using cast iron for a collet chuck itself, I think the fine threads will be weak.

With your measuring, if you have to hit it with a hammer to get it on, it's to tight. It would only take a 5 minutes with the emery paper to get it to seat properly.
0.5mm is 0.01969 thou so going from above is only 0.00246125 off the taper if my calculations are right.

Dave

Dave,
My lathe manual states D1-3 and the pins are 14.22 as you noted.

The CI is 105 diameter by 32 thick.
These pucks are issued by the TAFE store for student workpieces as required to submit for marking.
Some of them end up in the scrap bin.

This small size is all I need for a drive plate.
The drive pins for the dogs will simply engage tapped holes in the plate as required.
The camlock pins will be mild steel, size and fitting copied off my existing chucks.

A check this morning using a marking pen leads me to believe that contact between the chuck and spindle occurs on the shoulder, not the spindle end.
Is this the 0.001 inch clearance value you mentioned previously ?

If the 0.001 fit is as inferred above, it becomes important that any adjustment on the taper keeps the back face square.
Checking the fit then just involves ensuring that engagement of the tapers leaves the desired gap prior to final action of the camlock.

This will be an interesting problem when I make my plate.
It occurs to me that if the plate was thick enough, it could have a taper on each side engaging the spindle for machining the opposite side.
The camlock pins could be bolts from the front through clearance holes, say 10 diameter, so that the correct pins could be installed when the fits were correct.

John.

Found this source ages ago for D1-4 pins, but havent got any yet. RDGTOOLS SET OF 3 LATHE BACKPLATE D4 CAMLOCK PINS (eBay item 370372777936 end time 25-Nov-10 16:21:11 AEDST) : Business, Office Industrial Price seems very reasonable, and I reckon the freight would be pretty cheap from the UK. If anyone does order some, can you post the freight price?

Hi John,
Sounds like a good plan doing it both sides, but it might be easier to put it in your smallest 3 jaw to machine the taper, then without moving anything turn the lot around to try it on the spindle nose.

Dave.

Well I was pretty close on my 0.5mm.
I've set it up and started machining. Had all sorts of trouble lining the thing up but was finally happy with it(although I should have made some more washers). While setting the taper I found out the point of the indictor was loose, things went a little easier after that except after getting the taper within .0005" I went to undo the tool holder without tightening the compound, so I got to set it up all over again lol.
Here is a picture of the first cut, it doesn't seem to have made much difference. So I'll run it again at the same setting.

Decided you make a powerfeed compound from and allen key and a cordless drill. Just have to wait for the battery to charge.
Stuart

Hi Stuart,
I am not sure how your setting your compound to the taper, but you can set it directly off the other (back) side of the spindle nose with your indicator.

I find I can cut a very small amount off cast iron with HSS but carbide seems to just rub unless taking a bit off. Give it a light rub with emery to smooth it down after a cut before tying it. It will take down any little highs that maybe their.

Was yours a D1-4 or 3?

Dave