Thread: Request for up to date lathe advice

Originally Posted by Mick14

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PDW - I have been eyeing that Emco on ebay off for a while now. It looks nice.

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CBA - thanks for the education, it really helps me get my head around this stuff. I have considered a hercus 260, and am certainly not opposed to it. I was leaning toward new machines because I don't know everything I should be wary of on old ones. Do you know what a reasonable price for a hercus 260 is?

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That EMCO Maximat V10P with rear mounted mill has been on ebay for a while now without bids. It is simply too expensive for what it is and its age. Looking at the paint, it has been well used (EMCO had excellent quality paint, I know as I have an 8" EMCO). I guess it will eventually go for 4 to 4.5k$. If it was a Super11 it would be woth the 6K, but not a well used V10P. The overall quality of that EMCO V10P lathes is way above the Chinese lathes you are looking at, its also above Hercus. The chucks are exceptionally accurate, and the gears in the headstock are precision ground and much quiter than anything Chinese. The weak points are the phenolic/cotton gears (known as Tufnol/Garolite/Micarta etc) - these make for the exceptionally quite running and good surface finish, but are very expensive tio replace if they break. That material alone is very expensive, and these are fabricated together with a metal center like this:
V10P gear.jpgsuch a used V10P gear goes for US$150 on eBay (this pic is from eBay USA). Each metal gear in the headstock meshes with such a Tufnol gear. That Headstock is like looking into a Swiss made sewing machine of the 70's

The other weak point to look out for are the pushbutton switches at the top rear of the headstock that control the 2-speed motor, if they break its a hard time finding original spare parts (the V10P was made in the 70s):
V10P_2.jpg Such an old used switch block goes for about $150 if it can be found at all. Just to give you an idea what it costs to maintain such a V10P.




Well worn Hercus 260 seem to go for 1k to 1.5K. Mine was near mint unused and I paid 3.9k, but with many rare accessories and some extra tooling. If I deduct the vertical slide/vise/tooling I would say I paid 2.9k for it. So I would say a 260 in good nick with all chucks should gp for 1.5 to 2.5k. They did cost new 25 years ago nearly 8K$, that was a lot of money back then, one had to work twice as long as today to earn that sort of money. The overall quality is well above Chinese lathes of today, but its an old design from before WW2, its a slightly modified licensed clone of an American Soth Bend 10K. Normally fitted with quite good UK made Burnerd chucks - way better than Chinese noname chucks. Spare parts for Hercus are easy tyo find in Australia and reasonably priced - and many South Bend parts fit too.

Originally Posted by cba_melbourne

Well worn Hercus 260 seem to go for 1k to 1.5K. Mine was near mint unused and I paid 3.9k, but with many rare accessories and some extra tooling. If I deduct the vertical slide/vise/tooling I would say I paid 2.9k for it. So I would say a 260 in good nick with all chucks should gp for 1.5 to 2.5k. They did cost new 25 years ago nearly 8K$, that was a lot of money back then, one had to work twice as long as today to earn that sort of money. The overall quality is well above Chinese lathes of today, but its an old design from before WW2, its a slightly modified licensed clone of an American Soth Bend 10K. Normally fitted with quite good UK made Burnerd chucks - way better than Chinese noname chucks. Spare parts for Hercus are easy tyo find in Australia and reasonably priced - and many South Bend parts fit too.

Hey CBA,

Thanks for the detailed reply. Do you have any thoughts on the 260CTM model (http://australianmetalworkinghobbyis...product_id=196) that I posted last night? I did a bit of googling, but as far as I can tell it seems to handle the threading operations I need and has a basic longitudinal feed, but does not have the quick change gear box. Ie. I would need to play around with the change gears to change thread pitch and feed. Is that correct? I ask because the price seems decent for a lathe that apparently isn't too worn.

PDW and Ueee,
I am tempted to go heavier, but am limited by 750kg or so for mill and lathe in a trailer tower by a regular car. I wouldn't be bothered if this was a one off move, but I move every two years or so. I will likely end up driving them across australia, as the removal company tends not to like heavy gear. The lighter it is, the less fuel for me to pay, and the easier the journey is. I think I will stay on the light end for now, but very much appreciate the advice towards AL320 etc. I would certainly be leaning this way if I knew I would be steady for the next few years at least. Thanks for the offer of help Ueee, I'll keep it in mind if I manage to find something locally.

Has anyone got hands on experience/used the Sieg C8? It seems to be well thought of from the limited I can find, and have a great feature range.

Cheers,

Mick.

Originally Posted by Mick14

PDW and Ueee,
I am tempted to go heavier, but am limited by 750kg or so for mill and lathe in a trailer tower by a regular car. I wouldn't be bothered if this was a one off move, but I move every two years or so.

I just pack mine into a couple of 20' containers and ship them. No dramas. Once you get into multiple tonne machines it all gets a bit easier.

WRT that Hercus you linked to, it looks like it has no quick change gearbox and very likely no power facing feed. For those 2 reasons alone I wouldn't touch it. Lack of both of those features is going to drive you nuts.

The AL320G is probably the best compromise between a machine very close to your restrictions and one you won't rapidly outgrow. I don't like the spindle nose but I'm prejudiced against anything except camlock spindle noses.

PDW

Here's a C8 review i9f you haven't read it already:
http://www.mini-lathe.com/reviews/Lathes/Sieg_C8/C8.htm

And some info from an owner:
http://bbs.homeshopmachinist.net/thr...have-one/page2

There doesn't seem to be a lot of info around on this machine.

Originally Posted by Mick14

Hey CBA,

Thanks for the detailed reply. Do you have any thoughts on the 260CTM model (http://australianmetalworkinghobbyis...product_id=196) that I posted last night? I did a bit of googling, but as far as I can tell it seems to handle the threading operations I need and has a basic longitudinal feed, but does not have the quick change gear box. Ie. I would need to play around with the change gears to change thread pitch and feed. Is that correct? I ask because the price seems decent for a lathe that apparently isn't too worn.
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Mick.

Have a chat to Mal that runs that site, I feel you will get an honest and straight description on condition. You could ask for more pics to help decide. Ask especially about bed wear near the chuck. Where did it come from, TAFE or private owner? The M in atm means it has metric leadscrews and does metric threading. It needs extra changegears to cut imperial threads as well. The lack of the Norton gearbox is a minus - it also means you have to change gears manually to change automatic feed rates. It probably has both x and y automatic feeds, but ask to be sure y is really included. I have run a lathe without Norton box for over 20 years, its perfectly doable just not as comfortable. Also ask about accessories that are normally included in a new Chinese lathe, such as 3 and 4 jaw chucks, faceplate, catch plate, live and dead centers, MT4to2 adapter sleeve, fixed steady, complete set of changegears, does the manual (textbook of turning) come with it, the parts list.... all these may be available but cost extra... You may have to factor all these in when comparing price to a new lathe. Is the motor single or 3 phase (3 phase can be an advantage if you want to add a VFD for variable speed). Ask if tailstock serial number matches the lathe. Ask which parts if any have been exchanged from original. Good luck. Chris

I am making some calls to work out what price is available on a couple of different lathes. At this stage I am thinking that initial accessories I should be aiming for are:

Independent 4 jaw chuck with appropriate backing plate
Face plate?
Drill chuck & appropriate arbor
Live centres
Fixed steady
Following steady

Basic cutting tools - not sure what I should be seeking here to start. Had a look at CTC and am confused by the amount of options available. Can anyone give me a steer?

Can you guys let me know if I am on the right track, or if any of these are not really necessary at this point.

I have emailed Mal about the Hercus. I also spoke to Ausee. The C8 is out of stock for a month or two, but the C10 is available now... I feel some scope creep may be coming on. I will have to do some more thinking.

Cheers,

Mick.

Another aspect that you might like to consider is the spindle bore size, most small lathes are 19mm to 25mm, depending what you are making you will soon wish it was larger. Something like an AL320 has 38mm.

Hey Guys,

Looking at the picture of the AL320 it appears not to have quick change gears. Can anyone confirm if this is the case?

Mick.

Yep, No quick change gearbox on the AL320 but it does have auto cross feed.

Hi Mick,

I too have the honour of moving house every two to three years. I have a Hercus 260ATM lathe and a O Mill.

As much as I love the hercus lathe, if I was going to buy another similar sized lathe I would probably go the Sieg C8. It does everything the Hercus does and it's newer and you won't have to worry about repairs etc. Mal from AMWH is a good bloke though and should give you a good deal.

Ben

I have not seen a Sieg C8 in flesh and blood... it is a rather new model. But looking at the pics in the earlier link I can see two things that may be considered less than ideal.

One is, the spindle nose appers to be a standard short taper camlok style mount -- but there is no taper, only what appears to be a cylindrical register. The minilathe website shows how a chuck is seated onto the register with "a few gentle taps with a soft mallet". That requirement would actually worry me. Also this would mean that it is a proprietary mount, for which no ready made 3d party backplates or accessories can be found. A standardised camlock mount would have been a much better choice...

The other is, that the spindle bearing appear to be grease packed. At least I can see no oil ports. In that size/price class one would really expect total loss oil lubed bearings, or an oil filled headstock if geared, but probably not grease packed bearings as found on smaller hobbylathes.

I would recommend to have a good look at it in the showroom, before going for it. That said, it is a nice machine with a good feature set - not the least the ability to attach a rear bed mounted minimill to make it into a 3in1 machine like an EMCO - which can be a consideration if after a compact and lightweight workshop that is easy to relocate.

Hey Guys,

To give you an update I got some quotes today on the Sieg C8, C10 and the optimum lathe from Hafco. The C10 addresses the limitations of the C8 that Chris mentioned with a D1-4 nose taper, and also has a 38mm bore in the spindle. Its has 305 mm swing and is 215kg net. Noting that this lathe costs a fair bit more than I had expected once freight and tax are accounted for I am still leaning this way at the moment. I just need to see if I can work out a way to get it closer to my budget. In addition the Optimum and C8 aren't in stock until the end of next month, and I would prefer to move sooner than that.

I am not sure about the spindle bearings on the C8, or the C10, they may well be greased. I won't have the opportunity to inspect either lathe anytime soon unfortunately, which is one of the key reasons I am seeking your advice.

I will be speaking to Mal soon to get his advice and see what he has to offer. Once I work out which way I am going I will update all to put a bit more feedback about whichever option I choose out there for others.

Cheers,

Mick.

In addition to my last there are two versions of the Sieg C8/C10 lathes. Those configured primarily for metric, and those primarily for imperial threading. The difference is to do with the ratios in the gear box. The Imperial version covers most imperial threads with the QCGB, but requires change gears for a workable range of metric threads. The metric version covers most metric threads with the QCGB, but only covers 9 imperial threads, and misses some key ones such as 20 TPI. The imperial version comes with a 30, 35, 50 and 60 T change gear set to access the metric gears. The Metric version comes with only the 30T gear from that set, which limits its flexibility for imperial gears. With the addition of the 60T gear the metric version could also get the 20 TPI thread, and maybe some others. Maybe Sieg will consider this in the future. In the meantime, Ausee has said that he can get ahold of the extra change gears if needed.

I caveat all of the above with the fact that it is based on my maths. My maths is strong, but I haven't done threading operations on a lathe, so all of the above is theoretical.

I'll reiterate, stick with a Hercus 9" or 260.

If you finish up buying a lathe from Mal, it will be a good one. I have no affiliation with Mal, just the occasional phone call for a chat.

If I had my time again, I'd probably go for a 260 with quick change gear box. I currently have a 9" AR.

Or you might consider this one

http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/HERCUS-AR...item2a527d68c5

I reckon he's dreamin.

Ken