Thread: Restoring a Weir boiler feed pump

Originally Posted by Ueee

Hi Phil,
One thing i meant to ask earlier, and is more of a general steam question than one relating to the pump, but is rust a big problem with steam engines? I had never considered it before but all that moisture would surely cause some rusting of internals?
Or does steam not cause rust? Does the steam even turn to water before it leaves the engine (once its warmed up anyway)?

Cheers
Ew

Hi Ewan,
normally rust is not a problem but that relies on the operator. If I am operating a steam engine the first thing I do is make sure there is adequate lubrication in the steam side. The oil we use is Compound Steam Cylinder Oil 680 which does a fantastic job. This company has been going since 1869 so they should've got it right by now. I have pulled apart engines that haven't run for over 100 years and they have a good coating of oil in them which is thanks to the operator making sure the lubricator is doing it's job. I am guessing the bloke that ran my pump was clueless . If an engine is up for restoration and it is filthy it is normally a good thing as under all the gunk is some nice bright and well protected surfaces. I get the feeling that whilst they were running my pump, oil was a luxury. With the heat of a steam engine the oil impregnates any cast iron surfaces and resists rusting for years.
Steam is about as pure as you can get in this situation. One place I worked we had a laboratory and they were always coming to the boilerhouse for distilled water which is just condensed steam.
Once an engine is hot, the steam doesn't condense back to water as the temperature of the steel is above boiling point but there is a very brief moment just as the exhaust port opens that the used steam will condense but then immediately turn back into steam. I always throw that one at trainee Engine Drivers just to 'do their head in'

Originally Posted by neksmerj

Hi Phil, I'm following your restoration project with great interest. Obviously you have left out all the hard bits. One photo shows a badly rusted item, then wallah, magically, it's all de-rusted ready for the next stage. Q. How do you de-rust the bits and pieces?

If it's a secret, I'll keep it quiet.

Ken

Hi Ken,
Serious amounts of elbow grease is the way I lean towards but mechanical means sure speed up the process. I wouldn't let just anybody loose with a wire cup brush on an angle grinder though as most of the stuff I do is heritage equipment and a gentle hand is the go.
When I did the steam cylinder I used an old bronze bush/bearing that i machined an edge on and scraped the cylinder out. I always spray the surfaces with ROST OFF, thats Rost off not rust off as it breaks down the rust as well as releasing it. If I had my way I would use Kero and Creosote 50/50 mix but creosote is not available anymore.
DSC_0954.JPG DSC_0963.JPG
For the water side of the pump I will be blocking up all the holes and filling it with a 4 to 1 mix of water and molasses.

Phil

Originally Posted by Steamwhisperer

Once an engine is hot, the steam doesn't condense back to water

Well since Watt

Originally Posted by Steamwhisperer

creosote is not available anymore.

would a few litres do you any good at all?

Stuart

Originally Posted by Stustoys

Well since Watt



would a few litres do you any good at all?

Stuart

Hi Stuart,
I must say, touche'
I really should have mentioned Newcomens condensing engine
A few litres would be freakin' fantastic. Dont throw it out whatever you do!!
Years ago I had to remove two 1" BSP fittings from the backhead of a locomotive boiler. Someone had tried to remove the fittings and sheared them off leaving the 1" BSP threaded parts in the boiler. Whenever I walked past I would give them a squirt with the Kero and Creo. I eventually put my thumb on the fittings and screwed them out. I swear by the stuff now.

Phil

Originally Posted by Steamwhisperer

A few litres would be freakin' fantastic. Dont throw it out whatever you do!!

Hey dont make it sound to good or I might not have any
I know I "had" some in a 20l drum. Though I'd guess its been there almost 20 years now. I'll check tomorrow it might just been a solid lump?

Stuart

Originally Posted by Steamwhisperer

Hi Stuart,
I must say, touche'
I really should have mentioned Newcomens condensing engine
Phil

That would be one were the steam condenses in the cylinder causing a vacuum?

What Watt? The world may still be running on steam if it wasn't for that fangled lectricity stuff.....

Originally Posted by Ueee

That would be one were the steam condenses in the cylinder causing a vacuum?

yeap

Originally Posted by Ueee

What Watt? The world may still be running on steam if it wasn't for that fangled lectricity stuff.....

Same Watt
Where do you think most of that fangled lectricity stuff comes from?
Steam turbines with Watt external condensers*.

Stuart

*well ok they likely aren't Watt condensers, but it was his idea.

A couple of before and afters. More to come, I just have to wade through hundreds of pics

DSC_0945.JPG DSC_1122.JPG DSC_0930.JPG DSC_1126.JPG DSC_0956.JPG DSC_0964.JPG

Great stuff Phil. I'd offer to help, but I'm one of those guys with an angle grinder and wire brush

How bad is the surface under the rust? It looks like there is not much pitting and the rust has stayed on the surface (fortunately). I guess the amount of rust will depend on how wet the steam is? What's the norm for stationary boilers anyway?

Michael

Hi Phil,creosote stopped being available comes with cancer related warning.Note still available in developing countries in S E Asia as termites are a problem.
On another note can try dieso and carbolic acid in a sprayer too for penetrant wd crc are all diesel related and contain it. Carbolic acid is available in s markets ''Wheelie bin cleaner''.Have used carbolic acid and kero in baths for years as wash up for greasy parts.
i did hear of adding acetone to dieso carb acid mix but never tried that 1.
Cheers and am enjoying the re incarnation. Cheers John.ps share your enthusiasm for all things steam in fact any engines int combustion or external.

OK. Like any kid with a fascination for pulling things apart, I've been watching this thread from the sidelines.

But now my curiosity prompts me to ask...

Originally Posted by Steamwhisperer

For the water side of the pump I will be blocking up all the holes and filling it with a 4 to 1 mix of water and molasses.

... Huh?

Water & molasses? Care to educate us ignoramuses (ignoramii?) as to what this will accomplish... and why? Or is the water side just watching it's caffeine intake?

A little of topic but is anyone going to Lake Goldsmith this weekend?

For a stuck piston (IC engine), filling the cylinder with 50:50 diesel & brake fluid then forgetting about it for six months usually does the trick.
I don't know what's in Rost Off but I reckon it's some sort of miracle liquid. I bought a four liter container about 10 years ago and haven’t bothered with home brew since.
Still use diesel & brake fluid on stuck pistons though, Rost Off is a bit too pricey for that.
Cheers,
Greg.

Originally Posted by Steamwhisperer

A few litres would be freakin' fantastic. Dont throw it out whatever you do!!

Got some, must be around 10L. I'll be sure not to throw it out.

So now that you we cant get creosote, what does one use on redgum sleepers?, sump oil? is that any better for you?

Stuart

Originally Posted by j.ashburn

Hi Phil,creosote stopped being available comes with cancer related warning.Note still available in developing countries in S E Asia as termites are a problem.
On another note can try dieso and carbolic acid in a sprayer too for penetrant wd crc are all diesel related and contain it. Carbolic acid is available in s markets ''Wheelie bin cleaner''.Have used carbolic acid and kero in baths for years as wash up for greasy parts.
i did hear of adding acetone to dieso carb acid mix but never tried that 1.
Cheers and am enjoying the re incarnation. Cheers John.ps share your enthusiasm for all things steam in fact any engines int combustion or external.

Hi John,
I might give that recipe a go as I can see creosote getting scarcer.

Originally Posted by Skew ChiDAMN!!

OK. Like any kid with a fascination for pulling things apart, I've been watching this thread from the sidelines.

But now my curiosity prompts me to ask...



... Huh?

Water & molasses? Care to educate us ignoramuses (ignoramii?) as to what this will accomplish... and why? Or is the water side just watching it's caffeine intake?

Hi Skew,
I use the molasses and water to break down the rust. Not being a chemist, I wouldn't have a clue what the chemical reaction is that takes place but it sure does work.
I did another type of pump about 20 years ago and while I was picking this pump up the other weekend, it was sitting right next to it. The shed isn't lined or anything and stuff in there has been known to rust but there was no sign of rust anywhere on the pump. It certainly has stood the test of time . I also have a Furphy tank ends and fittings that were found in a swamp and well rusted. I did the fittings, pulled them out and the valve opened. Great stuff.

Originally Posted by kwijibo99

A little of topic but is anyone going to Lake Goldsmith this weekend?

For a stuck piston (IC engine), filling the cylinder with 50:50 diesel & brake fluid then forgetting about it for six months usually does the trick.
I don't know what's in Rost Off but I reckon it's some sort of miracle liquid. I bought a four liter container about 10 years ago and haven’t bothered with home brew since.
Still use diesel & brake fluid on stuck pistons though, Rost Off is a bit too pricey for that.
Cheers,
Greg.

Hi Greg,
I will be there on the Sunday. Might pop into Plough Book sales and see what he has on Weir boiler feed pumps. Will also see if I can source a couple of taps I need and a die nut
I reckon I might try your recipe as well as like you say the Rost Off is a bit expensive but damn does it work

Phil

I have just come across this thread and have had a quick read of it.

I last operated a weir pump in December 2005 when the boilerhouse I was working in ceased operating. The boilerhouse only had weir pumps (3of) so it was regular practise to swap them around weekly. Over the years various repairs were carried out including reseating a valve nest. It was sad to see them scrapped when the boilerhouse was demolished, although the lubricators still exist and have been reused on other steam engines (one of which is at Lake Goldsmith).

I am trying to work out what size pump you are working on. The second smallest is 3 x 4 1/2 x 6 inch (Water cylinder diameter, steam cylinder diameter, stroke) if you do not count the horizontal junior Weir pump. I was under the impression that the piston and pump rod could be one piece for that size. In the boilerhouse above, the small Weir pump (5 x 7 x 12), had a combined piston and pump rod with the cross head attached, rather than two rods joined at the crosshead which was the practice on larger pumps.

With the makers number, what does the "B" stand for?

Looking forward to watching the rest of the rebuild.