Thread: Scraping Class in Melbourne

I wonder if Mr 4-6-4 could be encouraged to get his parallel casting project moving? They could make nice small class projects, including some alignment work, which could be continued later at home.

Edit: The thread is here: arno milling machine

Another +1 from the West depending on actual dates. Also welcome to Phil (machtool). Alan.

pencil my name in

Wow, Thanks for the welcome guys. Lots of good interest there. And much to digest all ready. I have numerous thoughts already and I’ll address them in no particular order.

Firstly, are you guys happy to continue you the discussion in this thread, or start another? I was just thinking that it might water down what’s already been a good discussion. I’m not fussed either way. I’ll follow Joes lead on that.

Originally Posted by .RC.

I have sent a PM to Joe expressing my interest in attending the scraping class should it eventuate..

I was hoping you would be in. It will be good to catch up finally. I’ll put a beer in the fridge. That’s the primary reason for coming up with a date. So you and the Perth guys can get early discount airfares.

Originally Posted by jhovel

Phil is actually a "master scraper" himself, but can't see himself as a teacher

I’m not a master of anything, out of reverence to some of the old masters. I need to put in another 10 years yet.

It occurred to me, after speaking with you and Greg on Wednesday, I could probably impart a bit of knowledge off. I’ve trained plenty of apprentices. You guys ought to be a walk in the park, as you have interest and done plenty of home work.

So I could do it myself, but why bother, when I can connect you guys with Marko. I’ll help out and translate his jokes for you. He’s probably forgotten more about scraping then I’ve picked up. He will take on Job’s I wouldn’t touch with a barge pole. Like 10m planer tables, double Vee way, and all by hand.

I’m amassed I didn’t mention this on Wednesday. I spoke with Marko on Tuesday, onsite in Castlemaine. I threw those figures at him you mentioned in an Email. He’s in. Not a problem to do a Saturday / Sunday. Another reason to lock in a date. He’s got a few weeks up in Castlemaine, on that planner I’ll be helping him with, and a few weeks in Perth for Okuma coming up.

Originally Posted by Pete F

however unfortunately as a very unreliable candidate as I'm not at all sure what I'm doing with work and probably won't right up until the day prior.

We can work around that, one or two people that might have conflicting work commitments, won’t put a dint in the numbers, but I hope you can make it. I mentioned yesterday 6-8 blokes, I can probably accommodate more say 10 before it got too crowded. Maybe plan for that many, and if one or two drop out, it will still work.

Originally Posted by Anorak Bob

I'll fly over.

G’day Bob. This table of yours that I read about back 10 pages ago. I’ll throw an idea out. Whilst I think that if Steve at Hurcus could grind that for you @ $800, that’s a screaming good price. If you could get that over to me before the class, I can machine it for you, then you scrap it in the class, then take it back as use it as the master for the saddle.

There’s a transport Mob I use to the West called BoHaul Express. The Melbourne depot is just to the North of me here. (10 miles). There reasonable on something that size.

Originally Posted by neksmerj

If nothing else, Greg's coffee is to die for. Ken

Well that seems to be settled then. If there’s one thing that’s written in stone at this stage. Greg’s in charge of the coffee.

Originally Posted by Bryan

I wonder if Mr 4-6-4 could be encouraged to get his parallel casting project moving?

Something like that would be perfect, and solves getting the material. It was looking like we might have to bring in 20lb boxes of Durabar. I’d also like a set of those regardless. I can help with machining there also.

Originally Posted by C-47

Another +1 from the West depending on actual dates. Also welcome to Phil (machtool). Alan.

Would you be the Alan I meet over in Perth a few years ago? I was over there installing a Laser Cutter. It would have been Anzac / Easter time 2007 or 2008. I remember going out to dinner with an Alan, and showing him that machine. Going by your handle, that Alan was also in Aviation.

Originally Posted by jhovel

We only know of two commercial electric scrapers plus my home-made one

If I call in a few favours, I can lay my hands on 3 other Biax scapers, plus my Renz, Marko has 2 Biax scrapers, plus a half moon, plus Greg’s & Richards Biax's. I make that 9 machines.

I hope I don’t get burgled that weekend, that’s $30k’s worth of machines. Security here is good, I’ve never been done over.

Maybe making some hand scrapers

I have oxy acetylene & silver solder here. I can scrounge up some more blanks. We probably wouldn’t what to use up too much time on that.

Next comes some sussing out of accommodation for participants from outside of town (including me).

For those of you that don’t know, I’m in Thomastown. There’s one of those Formula1 hotels up on Sydney Road in Fawkner, That would be cheap and only 4 miles west from here, two exits from here on the ring road.

There’s a Best Western on Mahonies Road, about 2 miles from here. That’s nicer. I’ve put clients in it before. Its right across the road from the Excelsior Hotel / Pub, they have units also. It got spruced up a few years back when the pokies went in. Foods good there, although it has a late licence, so it might not be quiet. I’ve never seen the rooms there.

We need to factor into the program some food and refreshment issues

I can take care of the daily stuff. Toasted ham, cheese, tomato sandwiches for morning tea. We do a sausage sizzle here every Saturday, with the shop fitter guys from next door and the toolmaker on the other side of me.

I’m actually a frustrated chef. I have a collection of 4 slow cookers. For the Sunday I might run up a batch of Moroccan lambs shanks with couscous. I do that 3 – 4 times over the winter, for the guys in the street here.

That’s way too much for now.

Regards Phil.

Firstly, are you guys happy to continue you the discussion in this thread, or start another? I was just thinking that it might water down what’s already been a good discussion. I’m not fussed either way. I’ll follow Joes lead on that.

I think it's worth a new thread with the appropriate title. Sometimes people who would otherwise be keen see a thread of 10 pages and don't bother looking at it. The opportunity of any sort of Master Class in this field doesn't come up too often so I think it's too valuable to just get lost in the noise.

My 2 cents anyway but I'm sure the moderators could cut and paste all the relevant posts into a new thread without too much effort.

Pete

Edit: As far as things to actually scrape, a while ago a group of us arranged to bring in some 18 and 36 inch camelback castings. I'm very keen to scrape my 36" in a situation like this as it's longer than my surface plate. It's possible that the smaller 18" castings are light enough to be able to realistically post out from the US, however I'm not sure exactly how much they weigh. If so it could provide very suitable material while leaving the person with a very useful workshop tool at the end of the weekend.

Originally Posted by Pete F

I'm very keen to scrape my 36" in a situation like this as it's longer than my surface plate.

Hey Pete.
I have a 5’ x 3’ Granite table, as well as 4’ 6” and 6 foot master straight edges here. Plus master squares through to 6 foot high. So doing 36” long wouldn’t be a problem. Its a lot of work to try and get done over 2 days. But doable especially if you needed a hand. Marko or I could hammer that into shape in a few hours using a machine, leaving you to tickle it up.

Phil.

Hey Phil, that would be great! However I will of course arrange details closer to the event. I agree it's probably too much for a beginner to do in one weekend, but I'm guessing it would depend on just how accurate it is to begin with. I was more trying to suggest the little 18" edges for other members who may be looking for something to scrape as I would think they would be just about the perfect size to do in a weekend and for those coming from interstate, small enough to be able to fit into checked baggage.

Maybe this topic will be split off from this thread, so on another point. What are your thoughts on scraping after something has been ground. I've never done this myself but have read that it's more difficult than a part that hasn't been ground. Is there any truth in this and if so what makes it so? If it's cast iron I can't imagine there's any significant hardening, so maybe it's because the surface is not conducive to picking up the blue properly????

Pete

Pete.

I'll get back to you on Monday about that.. I need to get home. I seldom log in over the weekends after I get out of here by 4 or 5 on Saturday Arvo. . But in short, given the choice between ground or milled, I’d take ground up first every time.

Phil.

I was chatting to Joe about the 1,2,3 blocks that Forrest uses in his class.. From what I understand he starts with a piece of Durabar cast iron... AFAIK it is the same as the Flocast material produced locally in Melbourne... However Flocast in Melbourne only used to stock 80 X 55 and 80 X 30 mm in the rectangular sizes

Anyway I believe the top is scraped first, then using a master square an edge is scraped.. Then the piece is sawed in half to make two blocks... Forrest says this is about as far as they usually get in a class..

As the student then has two scraped surfaces perpendicular to each other they can use that as a master square at home to make the mating block, then use that to finish off the original block.

Some thoughts in no particular order after a very long day:

If we cannot get a continuous cast bar like dura bar I can get some shipped, but it would have to get under way this week to be here by Sept.

Forrest uses those bars because they are high quality and free of voids (and casting stresses for the most part). They are also cheap.

If we could get some bars here in 80 X 30 then perhaps the blanks could be milled to 75.2 X 25.2 to allow the scrapers to finish with a metric 1-2-3 block

The scraping class in Seattle that I attended was well organised, and the facilities were great. They had benches to which the attendees mounted vises to hold the work pieces. I could supply three vises, maybe more if ebay coughs up some good ones. I can also bring another plate if its required, and blue.

Making up scrapers is something that I or someone else can do in the weeks prior to the class. I think supplying them on a cost basis works for everyone?

The Seattle class had thirty students and two teachers. Mostly the teachers were there to correct technique mistakes for the students and to provide advice.

Once the students got into the zen state of scraping the little blue marks the focus turned to the methods of measuring for square and dimension. There wasn't enough time to discuss how to survey machines nor how to measure wear and correct for same. If we had time on this course even a glimpse into the pro methods would be a huge head start.

Greg

...and I'm on coffee. Roger.

I might have to get Pete F to help roast beans prior to the day, but I can definitely bring my grinder, fresh roasted exotic beans and coffee maker.

GQ

Would be interested in the class too, depending on....

I can help Greg with the roasting.

Hi Machtool (Phil),
looks like you have been caught up in this hook, line and sinker after all!
I'm very glad. Thank you for your enthusiasm!
Looks like you have started addressing some of the parts of the class that daunted me a bit.
Can I suggest a tentative date - just to see how that fits in with everyone?
Let's start with October 29 & 30. That's far enough out to start negotiating and preparing materials.
How does that fit with all the expressions of interest so far?
Cheers,
Joe

edited