Thread: Scraping Class in Melbourne

Originally Posted by jhovel

Geez! Did you see their prices for Grade A black granite surface plates???

Depressing isnt it lol

Stuart

Originally Posted by PDW

If I could fly into Rocky, you can (probably) fly out. Nice drive anyway, probably only take you 4 days.

I'd be in a scraping workshop as well. Easy to nick up from Hobart. In fact I'll be in Melbourne the week after next, heading back south from Sydney to do my bit for the old iron imbalance in Tasmania. Good thing I brought the turbo diesel flat tray with me because it's going back full.

PDW

G'Day Pete,
Welcome to the group, nice to see you here at last. I know that you know some of the members from other places, even if you have yet to meet them face to face.
On the subject of the iron imbalance, dare I ask if it is more boat, or more machinery to make it with Cheers,
Rob

Originally Posted by Ropetangler

G'Day Pete,
Welcome to the group, nice to see you here at last. I know that you know some of the members from other places, even if you have yet to meet them face to face.
On the subject of the iron imbalance, dare I ask if it is more boat, or more machinery to make it with Cheers,
Rob

Big boy toys. Another lathe, 2 drill presses (1 a camelback flat belt type for a garden ornament), parts of a Nicholls type milling machine (I'm scrapping the rest). Just been to Mick Moyles, now I've got another 2 D1-6 chucks for the Monarch and a 40 International vertical head to mount on the Vicky U2 mill.

I'll get back to the boat in early August.

PDW

Just a quick note to update this thread:
Over the last three or four days, there's been continuous work and negotiating going on to tie up many loose ends, come up with a detailed budget and a detailed program.
We will finalise the costs sometime over the next week and set a date.
The idea of running a beginners' class and a separate advanced class has been dropped for now. Collating all your replies has made that redundant. We may pick that idea up again later. The single two day class planned will give some insights into machine rebuilding but won't focus on it.
Watch this space!
Cheers,
Joe

Hi Joe, Phil Greg RC and All,
I just noticed these angle plates being sold by eBay seller Ozmestore, and wondered if they would be of any use as practice pieces for the course participants. They may be considered too difficult with their extensive slotting, I simply don't know, nor have I any idea what we might get a bulk number for, or even if he could supply in suitable numbers, but I just draw your attention to their possible use.6"X5"X4-1/2" Slotted Webbed Angle Plate | eBay.
On another note, there is some scraping discussion on the Model Engineer's Workshop website, and a link to this video was posted.
[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JGYwJ3RQpQo]‪[/ame]
To my very uneducated eyes, the manner in which the scraping was being carried out looked quite extreme, and a somewhat uncomfortable work technique. (I quite liked the sound-track though), and I wondered what our gurus might think. Regards,
Rob.

Just a quick note to all, this project hasn’t lost momentum, I’m in daily communication with the guys that are trying to put this together. We are close to having dates, cost and a format for the class. It been quite challenging trying to put a few things together to accommodate every ones interests.

Originally Posted by Ropetangler

I just noticed these angle plates being sold by eBay seller Ozmestore, and wondered if they would be of any use as practice pieces for the course participants.

Whilst they are a nice size, and a good thing to take away at the end, they present a few problems. For one they are hard to hold, the way the webs come down the back, you need a really narrow vice to hold them in. Even if you can hold them in a vice, they end up being too high off the floor.

When I scrap a right angle plate, I have an old cast iron saddle here that’s nice and heavy, I have that on a bench. It has tapped holes in the end, I normally use the tapped hole to bolt the other face to, so its reasonably low, yet solid enough to scrap on.

There’s currently 16 guys expressing an interest, Hopefully they can all attend, but I’m going to be hard pressed to find enough gear to hold those angle plates. Unless anyone else has any ideas how we can hold those?

They may be considered too difficult with their extensive slotting,

The slots aren’t a bad thing, everyone needs to learn how to scrap around obstructions. Oil ports, lube grooves, tee slots, etc. But maybe not for the beginner. I’d be a bit concerned handing over a power scraper to someone new at that, it gives you other things to bang into. I’m prepping 3 cast iron surface plates for people to practice that on. Those angle plates are also 6 kg’s, We also have to be careful about getting them on and off granite safely.

Whilst I’m not against those angle plates, I still think the 2 – 4 – 6” block to be the best to build up skill level in the limited time we have over the weekend. I can find enough vices, or ply wood blocking like the Japanese guy in your video used, so that its fast, and you gets lots of turns blueing up. That would still be a useful tool to take away, Its going to be flat, so you have a reference for local spoting, and square so its useful for lay out work.

Originally Posted by Ropetangler

there is some scraping discussion on the Model Engineer's Workshop website

I’ve never been there, so I hunted that thread down. That “ blue accumulates in the low spot” guy is scary. He’s putting the blue on the piece being scraped, totally ass about face, then rubbing it on a clean reference, and scraping the shiny spots where the reference has rubbed the blue off. I have a very special tool for rubbing the blue off, Its called a rag.

Originally Posted by Ropetangler

the manner in which the scraping was being carried out looked quite extreme

It’s certainly different, but I wont knock it if it works for him. Every one is different. I’ve noticed that with Asian scapers, they use their body more for power, I guess that’s just different builds.

Not sure that I liked the first blueing, where he puts his hands in the middle of that plate. Slender plate like that you will distort by hand pressure. So you would get a faulty reading on the middle of the plate. And I’d think he would have put it out of parallel by scraping mostly the ends, but he didn’t check that.

Regards Phil.

Thanks Phil for the detailed response to my post, the 2-4-6 block will be fine as far as I am concerned, I just thought that the angle plates might have solved some logistical issues for you, and as you said may have proved useful for participants to take home. I'm sure that the 2-4-6 blocks will also find ready uses when they are completed and back in their owners workshops.
I did find the scraping thread at the MEW site full of contradictory ideas, from a range of people who had apparently spent considerable time in their working careers actually doing it. To me who has no experience in scraping, it was difficult to figure out what the best way was. I can only assume that both methods can work, but bluing the reference plate, and then scraping the blued parts of the work-piece is the way most people find works best.
Thanks again for the reply, and many thanks to you and all the other organisers, for all you are doing to get the course up and running for the rest of us, it is gratefully appreciated.
Regards,
Rob.

Ok Gents, we have got a fairly accurate price, but it may vary slightly either way depending on numbers...

It will be $300/person for the weekend class depending on total numbers..

This includes meals supplied during the class (morning tea, lunch) and also consumable items like ink, paper towels, cleaning liquids..

We should have enough ink left over for you to take some home, so that is included in the price..

If you need a workpiece to scrape and take home that will be extra. (we think around $40). We can supply a piece of cast iron to make some 50, 100, 150 blocks out of, but we would have to know how many people need this before we work out the cost of that (appropriate sized cast bar in Au is hard to find).... We can also supply a scraper should the need arise.. Cost for a sandvik scraper is $90.. this includes one carbide piece. One of us should be able to supply home made hand scrapers for around the $50 mark (or maybe less), or loan one for the day...(I plan on making a tube type, may even give it away on the day

Once a date is determined a deposit will be required to reserve your spot... The date has not yet been determined, but are working around the 1st/2nd October.. Please let us know on whether that suits..


We also need to know if interstate/out of town participants would be coming in the Friday or Saturday morning... This will affect the starting time...


This class if for basic handscraping, we will be scraping flat and square, so if you are bringing something to scrape, please no complex shapes like a dovetail/V way..

Also helpful things to bring will be a felt tipped pen (nikko, sharpie, etc) and if you are scraping the cast iron blocks a micrometer (25-50mm).. We will post more along the lines of things that not essential but handy to bring closer to the day.

Joe would like to know what weekends you have and have not available.. And again also if you need a workpiece (cast iron bar) Please advise him via email or PM..

Also if you wish to bring a flat workpiece of your own, please tell us what it is so it can be approved.... The reason for this is so we can work out how it will be held for scraping.... With 16 people we will not have enough vices if we all bring a workpiece that has to be held in a vice...

There is probably something I have forgotten but we can sort that out in the coming weeks...

Edit: We will also have power scrapers there on the day..

RC have you been scraping today? You seem to have Dykem on your keybard.

No, thanks for the update, good to hear it's coming together.

BTW, will I be laughed at cruelly and have things thrown at me if I turn up with a HSS scraper?

No, we'll just stick a carbide one in your hand after five minutes and then you can tell us if you like it better.

Can we get a show of hands on here for those still interested now the price for the week end has been posted? And a tentative date...

Yes.

RC,
OK so far. Alan.

Looks Ok.