Thread: Selecting a small Mill / Mill/Drill

Originally Posted by Wombat200

Fred,

your DM45 is the smallest machine I've heard of or come accross that doesn't seem to use a MT spindle.... H&F & Asset's machines all use MT3 or MT4 until you start spending $3-4000+

Now, I'll be keeping my eye open for a DM45 2nd hand, and will probably go over to Standaco (they have nothing on their website), but really, everything seems to be MT in the size I'm looking at..... even the older 2nd hand RF30's I've looked at are MT3.....

When I bought mine, a pure impulse buy on Epay after a member here pointed it out, they had both an MT4 and an R8 in stock. The R8 was the one I bid on, the MT4 they had modified with a 3phase motor and inverter to run on 240V single phase. Have a talk to them and see what they have or can get, interesting place to go to, lots of Bridgeports clones when I have been there.
Very happy with the R8 spindle and the tooling available for it from CDCO and CTC etc.
I came from an X2 with an MT3 spindle and I know what I would rather have, R8 every time, much more positive.

I agree with Big Shed about prefering an R8 over a MT for a mill. My X2 has an R3 and the RF20 has a R8.

The SM-MD45 looks a lot like Titan's TM45FG (R8) and not much like ozmestore's mill (MT3) of that size.

Originally Posted by Wombat200

Fred,

your DM45 is the smallest machine I've heard of or come accross that doesn't seem to use a MT spindle.... H&F & Asset's machines all use MT3 or MT4 until you start spending $3-4000+

Now, I'll be keeping my eye open for a DM45 2nd hand, and will probably go over to Standaco (they have nothing on their website), but really, everything seems to be MT in the size I'm looking at..... even the older 2nd hand RF30's I've looked at are MT3.....

These machines are also made with R8 taper spindles. That would be my preference over MT 3 or 4.

Having said that, MT4 is pretty beefy so not too bad other than tool changing, which is why I asked. If most of your work is going to be using a collet chuck, an ER32 chuck on a MT4 arbor will work fine. If you're going to swap out the collet chuck for a face mill pretty regularly, you'll be cursing the MT spindle. Voice of experience.

Lots more mill tooling for R8 than MT as well.

PDW

My mill, ZAY7045FG/2 has a MT4 spindle and I have had no problems whatsoever.
I have been able to buy any tooling I have needed, although I believe that R8 tooling is more readily available secondhand.
Russell

Here are a few more suppliers of DM45s down your way. I know nothing about either company... CMEC and Redfox

Here is another place to look at.
Not sure I'd trust the NT40 taper though(and no idea on price, though they do have smaller mills)
MACHTECH MD46
Might be an idea to use a tape measure if you are really worried about travel. Some companies tend to round up, some round down. Remember your X axis needs a cutter diameter more travel that your work piece.


Stuart

An ER32 is exactly what I intend to use mostly, plus a drill chuck..... I'll be facing from time to time, but honestly, this thing won't be getting used on a weekly basis.....

All of those machines are worth looking at, and have travels dead on 500 - although I take the point about checking ACTUAL travel. BUT; The one at Asset alledgedly has 565, which is a nice buffer..... My Pug heads are pretty much 500 on the knocker, although I doubt I'll face those myself.....

I dropped in on RedFox the other day.... the 'Boss was out' and the bloke who wandered in from the linked-up business next door clearly had little idea of what the gear was & no idea of prices... struck my very much as a fly-by-night importer, with little stock, just dumped in the middle of a small, cheap Factory, and comments about various machines like "Dunno if the boss is gonna get more of them", etc....

Originally Posted by rusty steel

My mill, ZAY7045FG/2 has a MT4 spindle and I have had no problems whatsoever.
I have been able to buy any tooling I have needed, although I believe that R8 tooling is more readily available secondhand.
Russell

Yes, fine, but have you had extensive experience with R8 and ISO40 taper machines so you can make an informed comparison? I've got MT2, MT3, R8 and ISO40 plus an oddball horizontal mill taper.

Morse taper is a PITA if you change tools regularly. It's useable, sure, but a PITA. I even made one once back before I knew better. Every time I use it I wish I'd made the spindle R8 instead.

Provided your drill chuck isn't too massive, a good trick is to put it on a 20mm stub arbor and shove it straight into an ER32 collet. Much quicker (and less headroom needed) than swapping the ER32 chuck out for the drill chuck. I've got a few small keyless chucks set up like this.

PDW

Originally Posted by Stustoys

Here is another place to look at.
Not sure I'd trust the NT40 taper though(and no idea on price, though they do have smaller mills)
MACHTECH MD46
Might be an idea to use a tape measure if you are really worried about travel. Some companies tend to round up, some round down. Remember your X axis needs a cutter diameter more travel that your work piece.


Stuart

If it really is a 40 taper and they haven't compromised things to fit it, that would be my first choice by far. Price being a consideration of course.

Then again an Arno mill - a real one - with VH sold for $1250 BIN on Ebay a couple days ago. I'd have had that in an instant over any of these drill-mills.

PDW

Originally Posted by PDW

Yes, fine, but have you had extensive experience with R8 and ISO40 taper machines so you can make an informed comparison? I've got MT2, MT3, R8 and ISO40 plus an oddball horizontal mill taper.

Morse taper is a PITA if you change tools regularly. It's useable, sure, but a PITA. I even made one once back before I knew better. Every time I use it I wish I'd made the spindle R8 instead.

To be fair, mate, most guys here would be hobbyists, for whom the choice of tooling was dictated by whatever machine came up cheap/available, etc. And they're not in a production scenario where time=$$$. Tool change time matters nought when you're not being paid for productive time, really..... It might be a PITA, but if the alternative is a new machine, then a hobbyist is going to just suck it up....

Originally Posted by PDW

Provided your drill chuck isn't too massive, a good trick is to put it on a 20mm stub arbor and shove it straight into an ER32 collet. Much quicker (and less headroom needed) than swapping the ER32 chuck out for the drill chuck. I've got a few small keyless chucks set up like this.

PDW

As a patternmaker, this is pretty much what we did with everything - very rare to be milling steel at all, let alone heavy cuts, so most things went straight into a collet, even fly cutters & small face mills.....

Originally Posted by Wombat200

To be fair, mate, most guys here would be hobbyists, for whom the choice of tooling was dictated by whatever machine came up cheap/available, etc.

How do you think *I* ended up with so many variants?? Kept trading up every time a better machine came along after I'd come to dislike the limits of what I had. My point is, if you're going to buy new, you have the opportunity to avoid some of this so why not take it? In the small tapers, R8 is a lot better for a mill than MT3 or 4, though MT4 is probably stiffer.

PDW

I have used R8 and MT4 machines and I can't see where the R8 is better.
All of my MT4 tools (except the drill chuck) are held in place with a drawbar as with R8. To remove the drill chuck, I drop a piece of 1/2" rod down the spindle and tap it with my copper hammer to remove it. The biggest PITA that I have experienced was trying to remove the tools on a Bridgeport clone with R8 taper at my workplace where other work colleagues had overtightened the drawbar . I am careful not to overtighten the drawbar with my MT4 tools or I could have problems removing them. Morse tapers are self holding and require very little tension from the drawbar.
Russell

Originally Posted by rusty steel

The biggest PITA that I have experienced was trying to remove the tools on a Bridgeport clone with R8 taper at my workplace where other work colleagues had overtightened the drawbar . I am careful not to overtighten the drawbar with my MT4 tools or I could have problems removing them. Morse tapers are self holding and require very little tension from the drawbar.
Russell

My HM50 has NT30, and at first i didn't "overtighten" the drawbar, but a had a face mill come loose on me once so i don't risk it any more. NT30 tooling is also about twice the price of MT3, i'm not sure on R8 but i know NT40 is even more pricey than NT30.

Ewan

Originally Posted by PDW

My point is, if you're going to buy new, you have the opportunity to avoid some of this so why not take it?

$$$ that's why.

If you've read all the thread, then you'd know that my budget is around $1500. The $2200 for that DM45 is going to be a real stretch, and I'll have to go without ANY machine whilst saving the extra $$$, if I do decide to buy it. So ultimately, the price will dictate it to me.

Getting a machine that has the capability to fit my work, but remain small enough to fit in my workshop & remain moveable, is a priority also, otherwise I'd just wait for a decent Bridgeport clone to turn up. The spindle that I end up with is a LONG way down my list of priorities, at the end of the day.....