Thread: New Shaper

Originally Posted by simonl

The last couple of times I agonised over what colour to paint a machine. I have come to the conclusion that I'm reading into it too much because no matter what colour I choose, I end up sick of the colour after a month anyway! The grass is always greener..... Or should I say the colour of the paint always looks nicer on someone elses machine!

PS My hobby King Sky eye 2M power glider arrived yesterday. Wife rolled her eyes but don't worry I sweetened the deal by buying her a Leatherman!

Simon

Nice. A Leatherman? Bet she just loves that. Buy her a cheap LED torch and she can hang it off her belt next to the Leatherman. She will be set for anything.

I am still trying to work out whether I am, agonising or not. I say I just want a nice colour that is not the same as everything else. A shop assistant told me today that I could get any colourbond matching colour I wanted. "But then it will look like a fence" was my reply. She laughed.

Anyway as I had an appointment in town I had a look at paint colours. Not so easy. Something I have learnt. Paint colours displayed on the computer are a complete waste of time looking at. They are so far from reality! Colours in colour charts are much closer but still not good enough to make a reasonable choice. The little paint chips/cards are the closest or maybe the sample pots.

I did not manage to find any from Wattyl. I went to another hardware for another reason, saw the Wattyl sign in the paint section, forgot and walked out without looking. I would still like to check a couple of their colours.

Dulux Metalshield is available in standard tint bases and can be tinted to any colour available according to the shop assistant.

Has anyone had any experience with Dulux Metalshield?

Should I just use the Brunswick Green I already have. Then it can match the wood splitter and trailers.

Or the frame of my tooling cupboard.

Metalwork Cupboard Frame Cropped.jpg

Dean

Dean, if the machine is of UK origin then have a look at the BS381C (British Standard colours) range of colours.

This is a range of colours that was widely used by manufacturers to specify the colours for their, amongst other things, machines. The British Navy also used these as their standard colours, as well as the Army and Air Force.

It would keep your machine in a colour that would match the colours widely in use at the time.

Here is a link to the BS381C range of colours, yes I know they will look different "in the flesh".

BS381C Colour Chart

Originally Posted by Big Shed

Dean, if the machine is of UK origin then have a look at the BS381C (British Standard colours) range of colours.

This is a range of colours that was widely used by manufacturers to specify the colours for their, amongst other things, machines. The British Navy also used these as their standard colours, as well as the Army and Air Force.

It would keep your machine in a colour that would match the colours widely in use at the time.

Here is a link to the BS381C range of colours, yes I know they will look different "in the flesh".

BS381C Colour Chart

Thanks Fred. I will have a look. Unfortunately the colours need to be in proper samples for an accurate selection not on the computer screen.

As to where the machine is made that would be anybodys guess as there is no indication on it of a manufacturer. Only a McPhersons badge. Apparently there was no identifiable paint left on the machine either.

Dean

I had to go to Mount Gambier today for an appointment so I had a look at the big two hardware stores for paint colours. I saw a small sample chart on the weekend for Wattyl Killrust which had squares of steel painted in the different colours but only the main colours. Today in Masters I saw the full range on a bigger chart. The colour I first liked, Navigator was there and looked much lighter in the flesh. I liked it. Problem was they only stocked the basic colours. Back to Bunnies who had the Dulux Metalshield which could be tinted in any colour and I decided on and bought 4 litres of "Dance Studio". Now I will have to do something with it. Hope I like the colour in the flesh!

Dean

Originally Posted by Oldneweng

......
Should I just use the Brunswick Green I already have. Then it can match the wood splitter and trailers.

Now I acknowledge you have moved on from this comment but I smiled as the reason everything in my shed is Brunswick Green stems from the purchase of a 4 litre tin of oil based enamel paint for the window frames of the house. One c?oat convinced us that was not a good choice as it looked like a dark dungeon. Next question, was what to do with the 3.9 litres remaining. Has worked well on mill stand and Lathe stand. still have 1.5 litres to go so the theme will continue. Got my green in a place where I can enjoy it without compromising the domestic balance.

All the best with the restoration.

Thanks David. All my Brunswick green is on trailers of some form or another except for the cupboard frame pictured previously and the North facing door of my main shed which is what I have been using to use up excess paint left in the brush after finishing a coat.

I have nearly finished dismantling the shaper. All that is left to do is the access door which is just two screws and the main gear which needs to have the shaft pressed out to remove it and the boss/bearing block that I have left in to support the gear. I might look at leaving the gear in place but there is going to be a lot of degreaser and water flying around it soon so I can get all the oil off/out of the cast iron.

One issue that I have found is the dovetails for the vertical table traverse do not appear to have any facility for adjustment and there is a bit of clearance there. There is the remains of blue on the dovetails.

100_0364 resized.jpg

The circled section shows the dovetail piece that is removable. It is held in with three bolts. There is no room for movement in the holes. Not a great picture. I did not take it for this purpose. It was just one of a number taken to help with reassembly. The arrow points to the boss/bearing block mentioned. Ignore the rust spots. We have had some wet and windy weather since I got it and have no room under shelter at the moment except back in the hayshed.

Dean

Originally Posted by Oldneweng

... the main gear which needs to have the shaft pressed out to remove it and the boss/bearing block that I have left in to support the gear.

Dean if it's like mine you can remove the bull gear by first supporting its weight then removing the main bearing housing. The shaft has a flange that bolts to the gear. Remove this then lift the gear out. Mark first if it's not indexed somehow.

I think this must be a standard system because I don't know how else you could do it.

Hi Dean,

Is there no packing under the removable dovetail piece?
If the bolts are tight and there is no packing them you are out of adjustment.
The piece doesnt need to move sideways much, just in. I assume scrapping/grinding the inner face of the removable dovetail piece would be the done thing, but I've not had to do it.

Stuart

Originally Posted by Bryan

Dean if it's like mine you can remove the bull gear by first supporting its weight then removing the main bearing housing. The shaft has a flange that bolts to the gear. Remove this then lift the gear out. Mark first if it's not indexed somehow.

I think this must be a standard system because I don't know how else you could do it.

The Queens is either one piece or an interference fit. To get the bull gear out the bearing is removed then the crazy heavy gear an shaft can be maneuvered out of the door. The bearing must be off though. Remember my machine is very old though, they probably worked out the system Bryan describes a bit later on.

Ew

Originally Posted by Ueee

Remember my machine is very old though, they probably worked out the system Bryan describes a bit later on.

Ewan, Dean's looks to me like it was converted from line-shaft drive. That would make it older than the Queen City wouldn't it?

Dean I think it would be a good idea to have a look at the main bearing anyway, since you're this far in.

All these post all of a sudden!

Bryan.

Bull Gear.jpg

The shaft of the Bull Gear (Thanks for the Name) is pressed in not very hard and locked with a square head whatever they are called. Also a keyway and key. The square headed whatsis is lying in the grass underneath somewhere at the moment. The shaper is sitting on a pallet. Naturally I dropped most small bits. I managed to press the shaft out today using a plate, sized on the mill to slide into the adjustment slot on the Bull Gear with a threaded hole for a bolt to screw in and push the shaft out. The shaper is now completely apart except the base is in 2 parts bolted together and 4 grub screws left in so I remember where they go.

I am planning on trying caustic to clean the parts for painting. Mostly just oil from lubrication after it was stripped of paint.

Stuart.

The removable dovetail piece was bolted solidly in place contacting the outer edge and the bottom with no give on the bolts. There is no movement available at all. It is possible that there used to be packing under it as this would have worked but not any more. I just realised what you meant by -

I assume scrapping/grinding the inner face of the removable dovetail piece would be the done thing, but I've not had to do it.

Yes that would work. I wish I had a surface grinder. I was going to check the hardness of this piece today but I forgot. Thanks for pointing that out. It had not occurred to me yet.

Ewan.

The Queens is either one piece or an interference fit. To get the bull gear out the bearing is removed then the crazy heavy gear an shaft can be maneuvered out of the door. The bearing must be off though. Remember my machine is very old though, they probably worked out the system Bryan describes a bit later on.

Also interference fit but not too tight. I wasn't sure how much the cast slot would handle so I wasn't willing to put too much pressure on it. If it was real tight I would have made up a puller to fit behind the gear. I only have a small gear puller at the moment. The gear / shaft could move in and out at this point. The gear is bigger than the door and has to lift straight up which means it has to come off the shaft first. Put a piece of wood under the gear to catch it. Wasn't too hard.

Bryan.

Ewan, Dean's looks to me like it was converted from line-shaft drive. That would make it older than the Queen City wouldn't it?

Dean I think it would be a good idea to have a look at the main bearing anyway, since you're this far in.

Almost certainly line shaft. The motor mount is made from a length of steel channel. Not original. Something I am going to have a look at to see if a better method can be found.

Main bearing? What am I looking at? It is just cast. It could be bored and sleeved if needed but the bearing I am more concerned about is the input shaft which is also cast but not removable. There is noticable wear here. Probably do another 50yrs tho!

Bull Gear Bearing.jpg

Removable Bull Gear Bearing in front and Input Shaft Bearing behind. It is integral to the base casting. I did not check for wear in the Bull Gear Bearing but it did seem ok while I was playing around.

Dean

Originally Posted by Bryan

Ewan, Dean's looks to me like it was converted from line-shaft drive. That would make it older than the Queen City wouldn't it?

Dean I think it would be a good idea to have a look at the main bearing anyway, since you're this far in.

The Queen was line shaft too, it was just converted at some stage. Just the fact Deans is a line shaft drive should date it earlier than 1925-30 i *think*. The 24" QC model was introduced in 1906 and they went bust in 27, thats about as narrow as my date range is.

Just looking at some pics, pretty sure the bull and shaft (some 6" dia) is one piece.

Ew

Dean,
Could the input shaft be turned down and the casting bushed? Otherwise you really need to line bore the casting, difficult but not that bad. Some one did a video a few months back of some line boring just using a drill to power it. Scottish accent........and thats all i got.

Ew

A couple more points. First I just checked The Bull Gear Bearing / Shaft and I would say that it is fine. I could not detect any movement and it slides together like it is a good fit.

Looking at the last pic in previous post you can see the marks from someone trying to lever the bull gear bearing off, maybe with a chisel. I just want to point out that this was not me! It is actually held in position with pins which can be knocked out from inside which leaves only the bolts holding it. It then comes straight off.

There is a dark shadow at the rear of the bull gear bearing base which is caused by the pulley's rubbing. There is a gouge in there. There does not appear to be anything to stop this. The inside surface of the pulley where it touches its bearing housing is still in cast finish. There is no thrust bearing. It may be possible that someone in the past has reassembled this shaft incorrectly.

Bull Gear Bearing Gouge.jpgDrive Shaft Gear.jpg

A view of the gouge.

The gear slides onto the shaft, located with a key. There is a cast spacer/washer, an obviously homemade washer then the nut. The bore of both the spacer and the washer is far bigger than the thread. It fits between the shaft and the stepped section under the gear.

Dean