Thread: New Shaper

Originally Posted by Stustoys

Hi Dean,

Is there no packing under the removable dovetail piece?
If the bolts are tight and there is no packing them you are out of adjustment.
The piece doesnt need to move sideways much, just in. I assume scrapping/grinding the inner face of the removable dovetail piece would be the done thing, but I've not had to do it.

Stuart

I was thinking about grinding the inner face of the removable dovetail last night

Yes that would work. I wish I had a surface grinder. I was going to check the hardness of this piece today but I forgot. Thanks for pointing that out. It had not occurred to me yet.

and it dawned on me that it wouldn't work in its present state. My previous sentence states

The removable dovetail piece was bolted solidly in place contacting the outer edge and the bottom with no give on the bolts. There is no movement available at all. It is possible that there used to be packing under it as this would have worked but not any more. I just realised what you meant by -

(Stustoys) The piece doesnt need to move sideways much, just in. I assume scrapping/grinding the inner face of the removable dovetail piece would be the done thing, but I've not had to do it.

To move this piece inwards it does need to move sideways. I clamped the ways using shim on outer edge in order to lift the table jack as suggested by Harty. I found out it lifts by hand after removing the grubscrew so it wasn't needed. This operation caused slight scoring on the bolt threads where they contacted the insides of the holes so these holes would need to be relieved on the outer side. Elongated so to speak. There may be slight give but I don't want to risk altering the angle.

It would be good to know what the original idea was but it appears to me that there was no facility for adjustment. I think that there is too much movement sideways for accuracy at this point.

Surface grinder? Mill with angle grinder attached! A mate once ground disks off a car in his 600mm between centres lathe/mill using an angle grinder.

Internal grinder? Rob has the answer. He will be pleased.

Dean

I did some more checking today.

First some pics.

Drive Shaft Bearing Surface.jpgDrive Shaft Inner Boss.jpgDrive Shaft.jpg Table Vertical Dovetail Removable.jpg Table Vertical Dovetail Removable 2.jpgDrive Shaft Gear.jpg

1. Drive shaft bearing surface for what it is worth.
2. A view of the drive shaft bearing boss on inside.
3. Drive shaft.
4. Dovetail removable section showing sliding side. Remnants of blue visible. The line along bottom is just oil.
5. Dovetail removable section end view.
6. Put this one up before. Drive shaft with gear on.

1. Measurements of the bore. Another shot with the bore gauges and I am not typing this post in order.

Inner end about 1" in 1.391"
Middle 1.379"
Outer end about 1" in 1.383"

Measurements made both vertically and horizontally in the bore, both very similar in all 3 cases..

2. Marks can be seen where the disk shown on outside of gear in Pic 6 has been rubbing. This disk is in the wrong position I think. It should go on before the gear so it contacts as per pic 2. The raised diam section is part of the gear so disk fits on the shaft to the left of this. The rough home made washer has the same sized hole so may be intended to go with it. These are a form of thrust washer. There is no thrust washer etc to stop the gear/shaft moving inwards which is why the pulley has rubbed on the bull gear bearing base as shown in a previous post. I need to fix this.

3. Shaft could do with a touch up. Measurements of bearing contact section.

Left end with the ugly bits 1.369" / 1.370".
Middle 1.370"
Right end - there is some light scoring around the shaft 1.367"
The unworn section where the pulley was is 1.370"

Vert/Hoz again very similar as would be expected with the shaft.

A couple of firsts here. I used my new to me 25 -50mm mic and I used a metric mic for real, for the first time today. The figures don't look so bad in imperial as they did in metric.

4. & 5. Dovetail section not hardened.

6. Needs rearranging when reassembled.

I would like to see how much clearance there is on the table dovetails but that is heavy and out in the imp shed so will have to wait til I get time. I used 2 X 0.010" shims to lock the dovetail as mentioned previously. This was against the outside of the removable piece. Left side in pic 5.

Now to work out what to do.

Dean

Hi Dean,

Pictures arent working this end

Stuart

The pics were there a few moments ago. I hope they stay there this time. Something not quite right somewhere.

Having had a think about the needed fixes for the shaper I have decided that it is unlikely I will fix the drive shaft and bearing at this point in time. This will involve some serious playing around and I don't have the time for this. I don't think that the amount of use I will put this shaper too will make this repair necessary for quite a while. This of course is only my opinion.

I forgot to get putty to fill holes when I bought the paint. Not too much filling needed as the casting is fairly rough anyway but there is one biggish hole which has been partly filled already. Got an appointment in town tomorrow night so I will grab some then.

I have a 200 litre plastic container cut in half lengthways and a steel cradle to lay it on. I will use this to soak parts in caustic solution. It will be covered with a sheet of chipboard when unattended. Dogs, birds and possums make this essential around here. I have to be careful with the container as I have only borrowed it. It is normally used as a bath for the dogs. They play in it. They are making do with a shorter version but SWMBO's big hairy lug of a dog needs the longer one to stretch out in. The other half is in the duck yard so I suppose they could use that! Yuk! They wouldn't mind but we would.

Dean

I think I may have solved the flat belt problem.

Flat Belt 1.jpgFlat Belt 2.jpg

2650mm x 140mm x 3mm. Kevlar based.

This is designed to drive a 1 Tonne Stainless Steel spinning top at 4800 rpm. I think it will drive my shaper without too much stress. I need to find a way to join it at the right length. I am going to try super glue first. I will get 3 belts out of this one. I got another one at work today. Belt change due to annual rebuild/maintenance. They fitted a new better type. It is blue! This belt does not have provision for adjustment in the spinning top (Centrifuge). It is fitted with the motor loose and then the motor is tightened down. Thats it. Flange mount, vertical shaft down. I don't expect to have to adjust it much on the shaper.

Dean

Hi Dean,

Not sure what to think about that gib. Are you sure its blue? Maybe someone made a start on sraping it and didnt finish? Still I guess it doesnt matter, you need to fix it how ever it happened. (unless there was some rubbish under it?

Stuart

Originally Posted by Stustoys

Hi Dean,

Not sure what to think about that gib. Are you sure its blue? Maybe someone made a start on sraping it and didnt finish? Still I guess it doesnt matter, you need to fix it how ever it happened. (unless there was some rubbish under it?

Stuart

Harty scraped the top slide and there looks like fresh scaping on the gib so it looks like that got done as well.

Dean

Just a quick question. Is there any problems with cleaning off surface rust (recent) from the cast iron with a cup brush in the angle grinder? I am talking about the softer type not the hard twisted variety.

Dean

If it's recent then some turps and a scotchbrite or steelwool will work a treat. Soft cup brush will do, but it's messier/dusty work.

Originally Posted by CMB

If it's recent then some turps and a scotchbrite or steelwool will work a treat. Soft cup brush will do, but it's messier/dusty work.

Thanks. I will give that a go.

The base has its second lot of degreaser on it at the moment. I pressure cleaned the first lot off, blew water off with comp air and let it dry. Degreaser is Hydro Carb based. I also have some caustic based stuff but never found it much good.

I have got the caustic bath setup with the topslide in it. Just need to add the stuff. How much? about 100 litres of water. I have 20 litres of 50% conc caustic. Maybe not all of it yet!

CAUTION

Caustic is dangerous. Do not use it without full knowledge of its safe handling. Read the MSDS.

I use caustic almost daily at work and I have had training in its use.

Dean

Update for the day.

I have given the base 2 rounds of degrease, wait, pressure clean and blow off with comp air.

Second Degrease Left.jpgSecond Degrease Right.jpg

For the renovation experts, how long before any oil left in the cast iron pores will make its presence known? At the moment it looks mostly oil free. Looking at the first pic there are some imperfections on the left edge. Level with the door bottom edge, and just below that. When blowing with air liquid kept coming out. I had a pick and found a thin covering of cast with defects underneath. I am going to hit these with the wire brush on the angle grinder so I can open them up and clean them out properly. It will probably now need 3 tablespoons of the 1kg of putty I bought.

Would the application of a hot air gun be enough to help draw out oil?

In between times I setup the caustic bath.

Caustic Setup.jpgCaustic Bath 1.jpg

Lowered the top slide in and added caustic and water. It is about a 1:25 solution at this stage. I will leave it overnight and see how it looks.

While clearing space for the lifting trailer to reverse in to the bath position I found this!

Flat Leather Belt.jpg

This property used to be powered by a 32volt generator which was in the implement shed just behind and to the left of the caustic bath. I removed part of the drive system early this year. A shaft with a number of flat belt pulleys and 1 vee belt pulley on it. The belt may still be usable.

Dean

Hi Dean,
For the caustic i used a 1/4 of the recommended on the container. I used the diggers stuff from Bunnies, i cannot remember the ratio though. It stripped everything really well at this strength, oil and grease included. At this strength it is ok to put your hands in although it does sting fresh cuts a bit. I just use a face shield when mixing and gloves when handling parts. The use of a cheap dishwashing brush helps a lot too. Then a pressure wash and depending on the weather a dry in the hot sun or i made a "hot box" up out of a large cardboard box (the boxes we get flowers in are 1000x400x400) with the hot air gun shoved in one end and an opening in the other to let the moisture laden air out. I kept a close eye on it to make sure the box didn't catch fire but it didn't even come close.

I only have one oil spot so far that has caused me problems, the part was done in the electrolysis bath and i did not know there was oil in there until i painted it.....

Cheers,
Ew

Originally Posted by Ueee

Hi Dean,
For the caustic i used a 1/4 of the recommended on the container. I used the diggers stuff from Bunnies, i cannot remember the ratio though. It stripped everything really well at this strength, oil and grease included. At this strength it is ok to put your hands in although it does sting fresh cuts a bit. I just use a face shield when mixing and gloves when handling parts. The use of a cheap dishwashing brush helps a lot too. Then a pressure wash and depending on the weather a dry in the hot sun or i made a "hot box" up out of a large cardboard box (the boxes we get flowers in are 1000x400x400) with the hot air gun shoved in one end and an opening in the other to let the moisture laden air out. I kept a close eye on it to make sure the box didn't catch fire but it didn't even come close.

I only have one oil spot so far that has caused me problems, the part was done in the electrolysis bath and i did not know there was oil in there until i painted it.....

Cheers,
Ew

I have a small container of caustic. I just looked at the recommended amount. 25g per litre. A quick guesstimation suggests that I am using it at about 75g per litre.

Re PPE. Good choice. Face shield at all times. Drop a part into solution and your eyes are at serious risk. I have had conc caustic in one eye. Knowledge saves injury. Grabbed a hose and ran ##### loads of water in the eye. We have some gear at work located at various points which neutralises all sorts of stuff. Used that after the water. Eye was a bit uncomfortable for a while but no damage. At work we have to use a plastic apron as well and we are supposed to wear rubber boots but that gets ignored. We are talking about 50% conc liquid here. This stuff will start to burn in about 2 secs. If you get it on your pants get them off, now! If you are putting bare hands into dilute stuff, it is a good idea to rinse off with mild acid like vinegar cos caustic is hard to get off skin. Try rubbing fingers together. They will have a soapy feel even after repeated rinses. I would suggest an apron if using any sort of brush. We are not allowed to use any form of brush or scourer at work. Too much risk of spray in fine drops which may not be noticed until it is too late. I will rinse my stuff with a mild acid before pressure washing to neutralise the caustic.

I recognise that you are using a much more diluted mix than me

I will make one other point as general knowledge for everyone. Caustic is safe to handle if done properly but its effects can go unnoticed so do not just splash a bit of water and decide that is enough. Make sure it is all gone. There is a poster at work on the caustic containers which shows the skin grafts required after an incident when the only effect noticed was some itchiness. Caustic was spilt on trousers. I would suggest that a neutralising substance (I use citric acid) is available.

Sorry about the rant but I don't want to be responsible for someone making a mistake.

Thanks for the info about the hot air gun. It is going to be a fairly warm day so I will try wrapping the base in black plastic and let the sun warm it up. Possible rain tonight so I want to get it under shelter later. I may try the hot air gun when it is under shelter. I am still thinking about splitting the base. If you look at a pic you will see a half round raised section just under the vertical dovetails. The base is joined below this with 4 bolts/nuts.

Dean

If you use black plastic just be sure to put some breathing holes in. You don't want the air you trap in the plastic to become super humid and starting to rust the part. I found just the hot sun was enough with no plastic etc.

And ALWAYS add cuastic to the water, not the other way round. Many reasons....if you splash when you have only added 10% of your water the caustic will be highly concentrated and will burn. I always keep a bottle of vinegar around for neutralizing the alkalinity.

Ew