Thread: Shaper Action AND Power Scraping.

Originally Posted by brendanh

does a shaper have other uses? because im failing to see why they even exist.

Well today, in industry, you may well have a point There are other ways. Though that are still being made OS.
A shaper can do many of the things a mill can do, and a few more besides. Not much good for drilling holes or pocket work though.
The tooling is free compared to milling cutters(if you don't count labor grinding them).
If you're in a hurry a shaper can move a lot of metal.(not often an issue for me)

Stuart

They are reasonably cheap to purchased second hand.

If reasonable periodic maintenance has been carried out they should not require much effort to get them running and performing suitably.

Tooling for them is fairly inexpensive.

For there size they could probably remove more material from a work piece in a single cut than a milling machine,but it would be slower.

They can perform most tasks a Mill will do with the use of jigs and fixtures.

They can cut Key Ways,Dovetails,Angles,Tapers,Slots,Splines,Gears etc.

If you were making multiple items from Flat bar stock that needed to be ruffed out before going to a Mill they are handy as you can have both machines running at once.

I suppose the one thing I haven't mentioned is that a lot or most people on this forum that have one get enjoyment out of watching or listening to the cutting action.

Bob,

If you go with hardened jaws and need some material; let me know. I have a bit of K110/D2 on hand and might be able to find some suitable sized pieces.

Ken

Originally Posted by brendanh

does a shaper have other uses? because im failing to see why they even exist.

Shapers are gods gift to machinists everywhere, beautifully simple machines, amazingly versatile and easy to operate. The sheer joy of watching a shaper in action is reward enough, you don't even need to be making anything, of course if you reach that level of nirvana, there is always the "Shaper support group" to help bring you back to the reality of noisy spinning mills with their never-ending different collet standards and expensive tooling.



Ray

Originally Posted by Anorak Bob

Stefan's comment about cold rolled steel bowing when it's been machined has me nervous. I don't mill much of the stuff but my plans are to make a new set of soft jaws from some 1020 for the whizzo Schaublin vice. The originals were hardened and ground but sadly only one accompanied the vice. They are not large jaws at 65 x 40 x 12 but the rear face of each jaw is machined to create a locating rib.

Any suggestions for overcoming the probable problem of distortion?

A bit like cast iron Bob - the stress is near the surface. If you remove equally from both sides you should minimise any distortion due to stress relief. You might be better starting with some 16 thick rather than trying to squeeze it out of 12mm. Plan B if you wanted to get really tricky would be to do a stress relieve - Heat to 650 ^oC - 700 ^oC hold until temperature is uniform throughout the section, soak for 1 hour per 25mm of section, and cool in still air. (from the Interlloy data sheet)

Michael

Originally Posted by Toggy

Bob,

If you go with hardened jaws and need some material; let me know. I have a bit of K110/D2 on hand and might be able to find some suitable sized pieces.

Ken

Thank you Ken.
I just had a look at Bohler's information regarding D2 - http://www.bucanada.ca/aisi_d2_c.htm. Sounds like it would be up to the task. The heat treatment part is sadly where I come unstuck.

Bob.

Originally Posted by brendanh

does a shaper have other uses? because im failing to see why they even exist.

Hmm. You'd better hope that no one knows where you live...


Seriously though, shapers were one of those important industrial evolution links that made things like mills possible. They are very good for doing things like roughing out castings as they can really get under the hard skin. My understanding was that they were pivotal in the industrial revolution for being able to (volume) produce flat surfaces, enabling production of other machines that needed them for sliding parts (ways, dovetails). They can also be set up to generate gears and other essential machine building blocks. While slower than a mill they can do almost every task that a plain mill can except perhaps machine pockets (and some the mill can't).
Rarely found in industry these days (slow and an OH&S bad dream) lots of hobbyists think they are worth getting for the flexibility (and the old school appeal)

Michael

Originally Posted by Michael G

A bit like cast iron Bob - the stress is near the surface. If you remove equally from both sides you should minimise any distortion due to stress relief. You might be better starting with some 16 thick rather than trying to squeeze it out of 12mm. Plan B if you wanted to get really tricky would be to do a stress relieve - Heat to 650 ^oC - 700 ^oC hold until temperature is uniform throughout the section, soak for 1 hour per 25mm of section, and cool in still air. (from the Interlloy data sheet)

Michael

My ANZAC break shed project has just nose dived. I don't have any 16mm thick steel. If I was to obtain some hardenable steel, would the same thickness conditions apply?

Another way might be to make the locating rib a separate piece and locate it on the rear of a 10mm thick jaw with dowels, Too Mickey Mouse maybe Michael?

Bob.

We're getting a bit OT here, but you could always try it - it's a flat part bolted to a flat rigid surface - there might be a slight bow but the clamping action of the vice will probably squash that out.

Michael

Thanks for the info on the shapes, i can sort off see there purpose now.

OK Bob,

I have had a scratch around this morning and come up with 2 pieces of K110 in the black(rolled state?). 115L x 50W x 25T. Hard as hell but works with a file. Carbide and grinding I think would be tool choice. I don't have a hardness tester to give a hardness rating. I could dig deeper if you like and see if I can come up with anything thinner.

Ken

Originally Posted by Toggy

OK Bob,

I have had a scratch around this morning and come up with 2 pieces of K110 in the black(rolled state?). 115L x 50W x 25T. Hard as hell but works with a file. Carbide and grinding I think would be tool choice. I don't have a hardness tester to give a hardness rating. I could dig deeper if you like and see if I can come up with anything thinner.

Ken

Hi Ken,

Most of my mill tooling is HSS. I do have a indexable face mill but whether the inserts would suit, who knows. I can use a cermet insert in the boring head and use the boring head as a fly cutter but the Kaiser might be a bit dainty for hogging off 12mm of hard steel???? Thinner might be easier all round but only if it isn't a real pain in the neck to locate. Then there is still the issue of hardening.

Bob.

Originally Posted by Anorak Bob

Most of my mill tooling is HSS.

What mill? use the shaper!

Stuart

Stu,

After watching the back to front Gack I did think about the forlorn Douglas hiding under its tarp. I don't know how it would deal with something hard but I do have some brazed on carbide lathe tools that might work.

BT