Thread: Slideway and machine oils

I like the sound of that mod Pete. I'm picturing something like this. My Sketchup skills aren't too good, so these are a bit rough. Basically, a threaded hole in the top to take an oil cup, below that a well to hold a reasonable amount of oil and a suitable sized port to carry the oil to the ways through a felt wick. Any oil that runs forward through the horizontal screw hole would be soaked up by the way felt.

I posted this pic for Stuart when he was doing his lathe scraping, but here it is again. Sorry about the size, it is the best i can find, but this would have been the style of wiper originally on my LeBlond. I will make some when i get to that stage. Instead of exposing the edge of the felt to the way it has felt flat on each surface, and a cup on top to keep a constant supply up. Mind you my Leblond has something like 118 square inches of saddle to bed contact, so a lot of oil needs to be kept up to the ways to keep them lubed.

Originally Posted by jack620

I like the sound of that mod Pete. I'm picturing something like this. My Sketchup skills aren't too good, so these are a bit rough. Basically, a threaded hole in the top to take an oil cup, below that a well to hold a reasonable amount of oil and a suitable sized port to carry the oil to the ways through a felt wick. Any oil that runs forward through the horizontal screw hole would be soaked up by the way felt.

Yep, in a nutshell that's it. In reality, it may prove more effective in controlling the oil if much of the V was machined out and replaced with felt (ie the darker area on your sketch, machine it out to leave just a rim to form the V). Otherwise I think unless it was scraped to a good fit the oil would just run out. With the centre part of the V machined away it would act like a pair of little felt pads charged with oil from the oil cup wiping an oil film along the ways as the saddle moved up and down. It probably wouldn't matter if the oil came out on to the wiper felt, but to stop it simply running out through the wipers while the machine was not being used a small O-ring could be placed on the screw.

Your Sketchup skills are certainly better than mine. Unfortunately I'm away at them moment, otherwise I could probably make a set of these in the time it would take me to figure out how to draw them in Sketchup!!

Pete

Hi Pete,
I really like that idea. It should almost be mandatory as a felt becomes a broom when it is dry and not a wiper, and a coarse haired broom at that. I find a lot of people aren't as diligent on lubrication and think that the felts will take up the slack, which is great in theory, but...

Phil

I see what you mean Pete. Milling out the guts of the V might be a challenge though. Maybe a length of square felt in the square void above the V? That would prevent the oil draining out too quickly and hopefully the way wiper would spread it around. I squirt oil on my way felts every time I use the lathe, so it wouldn't bother me if I had to fill the oil cups every day.

Another idea might be to mill a nice wide slot across the V block and sandwich a piece of felt in it. Cut a V in the felt to match the block. I'll try and knock up a sketch.

Chris

Like this:

Originally Posted by Anorak Bob

K type M6 thread GQ?

Hi BT,

How many do you need? Straight or 45 degree?

Regards
Ray

EDIT... Sorry I only have H type... but I remembered the 6mm correctly..

Originally Posted by jack620

I see what you mean Pete. Milling out the guts of the V might be a challenge though. Maybe a length of square felt in the square void above the V? That would prevent the oil draining out too quickly and hopefully the way wiper would spread it around. I squirt oil on my way felts every time I use the lathe, so it wouldn't bother me if I had to fill the oil cups every day.

Chris

Chris, to mill out the "guts" (I just knew there would be a technical name for it) of the V, place it in your milling vice with one of the flats of the V parallel to the table. If your V ways are the typical 90 degrees, the the other face of the V will stand 90 degrees perpendicular to the table and pointing up so you will have clearance. You should be able to then plunge a small end mill into the face of the V and mill out a suitable pocket for the felt. If you don't have a milling machine and have manually cut and filed some aluminium to shape, you should be able to do the same thing by placing it in a drill press vise and pecking away a pocket. Milling would definitely be neater but nobody is going to see the end result. The outside can be profiled on a linisher to echo the profile of the brass felt holder, only larger.

Pete

Originally Posted by RayG

Hi BT,

How many do you need? Straight or 45 degree?

Regards
Ray

EDIT... Sorry I only have H type... but I remembered the 6mm correctly..

You had me excited for a while there Ray. A bloke had sent me a couple pruned from 102 he was parting. One was OK, the other marginally better than one I was hoping to replace. Hence the excitement at your unedited offer.

BT

Originally Posted by Anorak Bob

You had me excited for a while there Ray. A bloke had sent me a couple pruned from 102 he was parting. One was OK, the other marginally better than one I was hoping to replace. Hence the excitement at your unedited offer.

BT

Well, I feel morally obliged to assist your quest for suitable nipples ( ... no comments please )

I see pressol have them but no price? Products

Here's another mit price schmiernippel, nippel, kugelschmiernippel, K1, M6x1, DIN3402, edelstahlschmiernippel, v2a

Or if you prefer ebay.de 10 Schmiernippel / Kugelschmiernippel K1 M6x1 Messing | eBay

Search ebay.de for "Schmiernippel K1 M6x1"

Regards
Ray

PS I notice that seller only ships to EU, but you can use the Austrian Address for shipito..

Hey Ray,

I had contacted the seller, Waschbe, back in October regarding postage for ten schmiernipples. Then I dragged my feet...

Hello Bob,

I can arrange a shipment to Australia, no problem. The costs for the shipment will be 9,50 EUR for this small item.

Kind regards
Florian Wagner

- waschbe

Pretty obliging some of these Germans. So rather than continue the procrastination, I just hit the buy it now button.

BT

Originally Posted by Pete F

Chris, to mill out the "guts" (I just knew there would be a technical name for it) of the V, place it in your milling vice with one of the flats of the V parallel to the table. If your V ways are the typical 90 degrees, the the other face of the V will stand 90 degrees perpendicular to the table and pointing up so you will have clearance. You should be able to then plunge a small end mill into the face of the V and mill out a suitable pocket for the felt. If you don't have a milling machine and have manually cut and filed some aluminium to shape, you should be able to do the same thing by placing it in a drill press vise and pecking away a pocket. Milling would definitely be neater but nobody is going to see the end result. The outside can be profiled on a linisher to echo the profile of the brass felt holder, only larger.

Pete

Thanks Pete. I have a milling attachment for my lathe, but I think the cost-benefit analysis puts this project in the "not worth it" category. I've just been using my lathe and it's surprising how effective the way wipers are at spreading oil on the ways. Just put a good squirt on the top of each metal retainer and the oil runs through the gaps and into the felt.
Cheers,
Chris

Originally Posted by jack620

.... I've just been using my lathe and it's surprising how effective the way wipers are at spreading oil on the ways. Just put a good squirt on the top of each metal retainer and the oil runs through the gaps and into the felt......

That has been my experience too. I can see no real advantage in an oil cup and reservoir within the saddle. Certainly not on a simple hobbylathe that is fitted with felt wipers. Just replace those old felts that have completely clogged up with the wax like residues of dried old oil and coolant over the last 20 years. A clean felt will soak up oil and keep spreading it as a thin oil film all day long.

Regularly wash out the felts once a month or so, and make it a habit to brush the ways clean whilst working: time spent doing this is IMHO much more effective than time spent adding oil cups to a saddle (a saddle design that has been working very well with just way felts, for nearly 100 years). Chris

Too little lubrication is a bad thing, however too much lubrication can, in many instances, be equally damaging, albeit for quite different reasons. It's a balancing act with a compromise between the two extremes being sought. Reading back through this thread it was argued that having too much lubrication on the ways, especially way lube containing tackifiers, tends to hold swarf and other abrasives (that are found in the workshop environment) on the ways and that will contribute to wear. I think it's a valid argument too. I also wipe down my ways religiously and use a small brush to paint lube on them before moving the saddle ... if possible, and that's the catch.

The idea of people installing oilers within their saddles, tailstock, etc, is that it provides enough lubrication to slide correctly with minimum friction and wear, while not providing excess lubricant that will tend to attract and hold particles and contribute to wear ie it automatically finds that compromise mentioned above. Furthermore, the felt pads that are controlling the oil in this example of oiler further prevent any possibility of abrasive particles finding their way to the bearing surfaces, and I can't see that being a bad idea at all, the standard way felts are quite thin and it wouldn't take too much to get past them.

So that's the reason behind them, now whether it's worth a person's time to make them is not for me to say. I know of a number of people who are very accomplished machinists and who's opinions and work I admire who have installed oilers on their lathes' saddles and they certainly consider them a valuable addition. I'm not sure if I will get a chance to make any up after this trip, but if it took me more than a couple of hours to make a set up I'd definitely be thinking it's time to start considering an alternative past-time. Other's milage may, however, be completely different.

Pete