Thread: Squaring my lathe

Originally Posted by Ueee

On another note i'd like to see a range of test reports from a bunch of these small Chinese machines. Another thread maybe? I have seen first hand how wrong the small granite plate test certs are. Not only are they the same but my plate is definitely concave (when compared to my big plate), not convex as the chart says.

Cheers,
Ew

I'd be interested to see that. My lathe has a test report. It's printed out but the figures are hand written in pen, along with a signature. I'm not particularly fussed but I'd be interested to know if it was genuine. Simon

Quite right Peter, and I'm not suggesting for a moment that the lathes aren't necessarily accurate, they may be, and that's the whole circuitous point of how this relates to the OP; may. They MAY be accurate. The may not be too. There's a process to aligning a lathe and it begins at one point and ends at another. It doesn't mean you can't jump in half way through, but you would need to be very VERY careful if you do. If you did so presuming that a lathe like this was ever necessarily correct from the factory, notwithstanding its "test sheet", I think it would be foolish indeed. Instead I'd suggest going back to the beginning of the test process and sequentially confirming each measurement does indeed comply with the stated limits and then continue from there, well before any adjustments were made. Once you have a very good idea of where you stand, only then start to think about what and how you may go about correcting any errors.

Originally Posted by RayG

There's another layer of structure in there.. multiple independant companies all making the same identical product, how do they all get the same design?

In the case of the 9x20 lathes, they stole it from an Emco Compact 8 and modified it. Some of the modifications are likely an improvement - there seems to be more mass in the Chinese lathes. However they're definitely not built or finished to the same standard.

My FIL has a Compact 8 in superb original condition so I'm very familiar with the original machine. IMO they're very light weight but there's no doubt they're well made and capable of accurate work. A well worked over Chinese copy *should* be capable of good work, but getting there might basically require replacing the spindle bearings and scraping all the ways, worst case. Best case, plug & play but - I know my FIL paid $1800 for his used but well equipped Compact 8 over 15 years ago, so what can you expect for less than half?

PDW

I just file the chinese test reports............

Originally Posted by Pete F

Sigh. Ok here's how it really works. The company's purchasing department go on Alibaba and sort through machines that they want to sell. They then send a message to the various companies requesting a quote, together with how many pieces they require. The Chinese company replies and once a short list is complied the two companies sort out specifics such as branding etc etc. No Chinese companies are "screwed" in the process, if anything there will be lots if attempts of doing the opposite, at least in my experience.

The situation with on site inspectors etc may well be different for big value machines, but sure as heck isn't for a lathe that can be picked up for around $200 FOB!!!

That is rubbish. The larger dealers have established their relationships with particular factories LONG before Alibaba existed. They would have made the link at machine fairs, and most would have visited in person the factories in China. This lathe we are talking about has been made in China since the early 90's. And before that, it was cloned for nearly 10 years in Taiwan (these were actually much better finished). Even today nobody would buy a container stuffed with 60 lathes on Alibaba. Alibaba may be fine if you wanted to import your own lathe, as it would not make sense to organize your own transport just for one.

Even the small ironmonger type of shop owners do not use Alibaba. They buy assorted containers, full of tools and garden shovels, vises and castor wheels, air compressors..... and maybe a couple lathes and mills. They could not be bothered to order it all one by one on Alibaba.

Chris I'm not going to argue with you about this, but you clearly have no idea how Alibaba works, nor how business is done these days with regard this type of thing. SOME vendors on Alibaba offer 1 piece lots, many don't. I just did a quick search on this type of lathe and noted one vendor had a 50 piece minimum, just for example. Alibaba is HUGE, we all know how big eBay is. We all know how big Amazon is. Alibaba is bigger than BOTH combined. So much for selling garden shovels one at a time

Not that I see how any of this relates to the OP's question, nor lathes in general.

Originally Posted by PDW

In the case of the 9x20 lathes, they stole it from an Emco Compact 8 and modified it. Some of the modifications are likely an improvement - there seems to be more mass in the Chinese lathes. However they're definitely not built or finished to the same standard.

My FIL has a Compact 8 in superb original condition so I'm very familiar with the original machine. IMO they're very light weight but there's no doubt they're well made and capable of accurate work. A well worked over Chinese copy *should* be capable of good work, but getting there might basically require replacing the spindle bearings and scraping all the ways, worst case. Best case, plug & play but - I know my FIL paid $1800 for his used but well equipped Compact 8 over 15 years ago, so what can you expect for less than half?

PDW

Some history:

The design actually started in the 1960's as a pretty rigid semi-industrial 7" swing geared head lathe, the Emcomat 7. It then grew into the taller 8" swing geared head Emcomat 8.6.

From there there was a split into two lines. On the one hand into the semi-industrial Maximat V10P and the Maximat Super 11. On the other hand into the hobbylathes Compact 8 and Compact 10 with a belt driven headstock and no Norton box. All these lathes belong to the "3in1" category, with an optional rear bed mounted mill/drill column. Page Title

I bought my Compact8 in the mid 80 for about $3000 barebone (add about $1500 for 2 chucks, collet chuck, changegears, steadies etc etc). In todays money that would translate to about $ 6000 plus accessories. I still have this lathe and love it for smallish workpieces, she will survive me. But you are right, it is an ultralight lathe at only 58kg with motor and chuck.

In the mid 80's there was also a Taiwan made unlicensed copy of the Compact 8 available. It did sell for $1700 including most accessories, half what the Austrian C8 did cost. It was a faithful 1:1 copy down to some minute detail, but fit and finish was much poorer as the original. This lathe was often sold under the generic name "818", meaning 8" swing and 18" between centers.

It is this Taiwanese 818 that the Chinese in turn choose to clone for their 920. They did stretch the headstock and tailstock castings for 9" swing. Extend the lathe bed by 2". Make the 4-way toolpost taller to fit the new center height. Add a half Norton gearbox, and a slotted leadscrew for automatic feed via worm drive. And they sold it for nearly half again the Taiwanese price. I dare to say, the Chinese 920 along with the Sieg 7" minilathe has to be the best selling Chinese lathe model ever built.

So that is the transition from a well built and fairly rigid 1960's semi industrial lathe, to a not-so-rigid and not-so-well built 9" hobbylathe of today. The Emcomat 7 from the 60's did however cost several monthly wages of an average worker, the Chinese 920 from today can be bought with one weeks wage from an average worker. For that, it has to be unbeatable value. But it takes some considerable TLC to make it into a reliable and useful hobbylathe. Many say it is a kit of parts - only pre-assembled to show that all parts are there.