Thread: Superglue and Washer Turning

Hi Bob,
I'm glad you got the washers made...even if it did not all go to plan. My HSS parting tool is 5/8" x 3/32". I have each end ground differently, one has only a few degrees top rake, the other has more. With a tapered blade, when you grind the top rake you get side clearance as well. If you try to cut deeper than the top rake grind the bit wedges into the cut and leaves a terrible finish. However it can also help stop the blade from chattering when parting big stuff......probably not the "right" thing to do but it works...
My carbide tool is 25x2mm..i love it and hate it, when it cuts well it's great, when it doesn't it gets scarey. The best thing with it is that it will easily take a second half or 1/4 width cut without wandering into the first cut like the HSS does.

Originally Posted by Anorak Bob

Outer support? The bar end or the cutter Phil?

The bar end Bob. I was thinking it might be pushing the washer towards the stock.

Phil

Originally Posted by Anorak Bob

The rake is a problem with the rear post. The way it's set up, there is no provision for height adjustment. If the inclusion of adjustment to counter the wear and regrinding of a raked blade is a means to mirror -like parted faces, then I'll make a new post.

BT

Hmmm probably worth a thought or two Bob.

Phil

Hi Bob,
My parting tool is mounted very similar to yours ie rear mounted, I have tried a variety of different grades of HSS blades, brazed carbide and the insert style parting blades. All work but the insert style give the best results and last a whole lot longer as their design is superior, they "form" the chip and hold their edge. Looking at your original set of photos your parting tool is generating a broken stream of swarf, a lot of smaller chips some of which I am sure are not being ejected from the cut and are being re cut, hence the poor finish. Even with a sharp HSS tool I could not achieve a steady stream of swarf for long as soon as the blade looses a little bit of its edge the small chips started to flow.HSS blades do not have sufficient side clearance to handle these small pieces. When I part off with my inserted blade with power feed engaged the design of the tip forces the swarf into cupped continious roll, no small chips and result in a lot better finish. By adjusting the blades angle as described earlier it just maintains a constant pressure on one side of the cut and produces the best finish.
Bob

Originally Posted by krisfarm

Hi Bob,
My parting tool is mounted very similar to yours ie rear mounted, I have tried a variety of different grades of HSS blades, brazed carbide and the insert style parting blades. All work but the insert style give the best results and last a whole lot longer as their design is superior, they "form" the chip and hold their edge. Looking at your original set of photos your parting tool is generating a broken stream of swarf, a lot of smaller chips some of which I am sure are not being ejected from the cut and are being re cut, hence the poor finish. Even with a sharp HSS tool I could not achieve a steady stream of swarf for long as soon as the blade looses a little bit of its edge the small chips started to flow.HSS blades do not have sufficient side clearance to handle these small pieces. When I part off with my inserted blade with power feed engaged the design of the tip forces the swarf into cupped continious roll, no small chips and result in a lot better finish. By adjusting the blades angle as described earlier it just maintains a constant pressure on one side of the cut and produces the best finish.
Bob

Bob
The Insert style blade sounds to be of good design.
I have a similiar set up to Anorak Bobs.... ie Hercus lathe with rear style toolpost.
As previously outlined mine uses a 3/8th" square HSS ground to suit. Its been good.
However always on the lookout for improved methods & yours sounds great.
Any chance of a photo, or where I might look to purchase the insert style to fit into a smaller lathe like the Hercus?
regards
Bruce

Sounds like it's all done and dusted now but I would suggest never using superglue as a primary support for this sort of thing.
Super glue is very susceptible to heat and the bond will break down very rapidly when it gets too hot.

I remember an incident when I was at Tafe and someone was surface grinding a non-magnetic stainless washer and had superglued it to a piece of steel so it could be held the mag chuck (not the sharpest tool in the box).
Even with the usual flood cooling the bond broke down and the washer flew across the room like a bullet and hit a roller door about 10 meters away with an almighty bang (the spark guards were not fitted to the grinder table).

Probably not as big a deal in a lathe as mentioned here but I wouldn't take the chance.
Cheers,
Greg.

Bruce,
Yesterday before I posted I tried to find some 30mm * 5mm washers I made out of 4130 but I must have used them all up. A picture is always help full when trying to describe machining. I have just left my workshop and remembered to part off a washer, I only had a bit of that horrible black bar handy it came out Ok but not as nice as the 4130 does. My insert probably is due for a change as well as it has done a lot of work over the last six months mainly chopping black bar, you can hear the different sound it makes cutting now, and it has cut a bit rough just near the ID. I purchase a "promotional kit" blade and ten inserts from this firm about two years ago. I cannot remember how much I paid, I just looked them up and they have the kit at 65 English pounds. I cut this washer on my lathe a Hare & Forbes AL100D from a piece of black bar 32 mm OD and had the lathe turning at 700 RPM using feed rate of 0.068mm/rev ( which would be half this using power cross feed) with a steady flow of oil on it.
Bob
KYOCERA UNIMERCO - Kyocera parting off

Hey Bob,

Bruce and I are pretty interested to see how you have the cutter mounted on your lathe and also to see how big or small the lathe is in comparison to Bruce's Hercus 260 and my 9" Hercus.

I spent some time yseterday scribbling down a couple of ideas for a height adjustable rear post. I also found something offered for the little Myford that looked promising though complicated. Carbide would do away with the need to fool around with adjustment. While I use carbide for general turning, my concern would be whether the one horse donk on the lathe is up to the task of carbide parting.

Bob.

PS. And Greg, I've weaned myself off the glue idea.

Hi Bob & Bruce,
I have never seen either of your sized machines in the flesh but have a reasonable idea of the size of them. My AL1000D weights 720 kg gross and can swing over the bed 360mmm and it is 1000mm long, swing over cross slide is 225mm. It has a 3hp two speed 415 volt motor 18 speeds and cover 50-2000 RPM.As you can see my parting tool is 3mm wide, when cutting on a low feed rate it uses very little of the three horses. They do make the parting tools in 2mm wide as well.As you can see in the photos my mounting is very basic, after I made my quick change system I used the original four way tool post. The big block of steel measures 107mm long * 102mm deep * 85mm height. I did make it slightly low to enable me to pack it if needed but I found by setting it on centre I have never moved it. After making that washer yesterday I worked out that the tip in the blade has been there for 18 months, I popped it out and it has only worn a slight dullness on it- amazing when I mostly cut black bar on it.I have recently changed over from using water based coolant ( kept evaporating) to filtered used auto transmission oil, it seems to work the same and eliminates the evaporation and rusting/staining problems. I always flood the tool when parting. Hope the pictures help you out, I think if you installed a carbide tip system you would not use your HSS parting tool much, I know I don't use mine much mostly only on aluminium.
Bob

Originally Posted by pipeclay

Bob I use either 2 or 3mm carbide parting blades,rpm dependant on OD and feed either by hand or power around .10mm feed depending on the depth of cut.
I then remove the dag with pliers and finish with counter sunk in drill press or if bore is large cut reverse chamfer before parting.

Hey Peter,

Now that I know Bob's lathe is a lot bigger and sturdier than mine and for that matter Bruce's 260, what lathe are you using the carbide parting tool on? I always thought you had a Hercus.

Bob.

Bob I have 2 the 9" and an AL340,I have to sets of blades for 2 and 3mm parting.
Dont use it on the 9".
There is no reason why it wouldn't work either in the forward tool post or the rear as long as there was enough room to get centre.
If rear parting is your preferred method it would only require a rear tool post to accomadate the inverted tool.

Originally Posted by pipeclay

Bob I have 2 the 9" and an AL340,I have to sets of blades for 2 and 3mm parting.
Dont use it on the 9".
There is no reason why it wouldn't work either in the forward tool post or the rear as long as there was enough room to get centre.
If rear parting is your preferred method it would only require a rear tool post to accomadate the inverted tool.

Do you reckon 1 horsepower would be up to the task with a 2mm cutter Peter?

What brand of insert do you use?

Bob.

Bob I don't think you would have a problem running a 2mm blade and tip with 1HP.
My holder came from Shars,with a 3mm blade and tips,my blade is 26mm high.
My 2mm blade and tips are Iscar the blade is an SGFH 26-2 and the tips are GFN 2J (IC354).
The mounting section of the parting block is 16mm,as long as your opening on your rear holder is 16mm or larger and machined to centre height one of these blocks should fit straight in when inverted.

Thanks to
Localele Micheal
Krisfarm Bob
Anorak Bob
Pipeclay Peter
regarding the input on this subject.
Today Ive had the opportunity to research out this subject after having a lengthy phone discussion with Localele Micheal. He has the same lathe as myself a Hercus 260 with the rear toolpost parting off set up.
Micheal has been using the Insert Tool out of CTC Tools
Its a 12mm high toolholder part no MGEHR 1212 2T10 (Left Hand) @ $35
The body of the Toolholder measures 12mm by 12mm & is 400mm long.
The inserts are
part HO1 2mm wide for non ferrous
part PC9030 2mm wide for stainless
part NC3020 2mm wide for steel
The 12mm high holder may just fit (inverted) into the rear toolholder on my Hercus 260 (as per the drawings I posted to you Peter (Pipeclay) a small amount may need to be milled to accomodate the holder.)
So the reports on this set up seem very good, the above holder would also fit into the front toolpost of the lathe.
This is the state of play on this subject to date.
regards
Bruce
ps
The end result of all this, is it has made me reconsider the HSS rear Toolbit Ive used for years in favor of the Inserted type