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Thread: Tool and Cutter Grinder
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8th October 2012, 05:42 AM #1
Tool and Cutter Grinder
At last I have acquired a mini-mill where I previously was limited to a veritical milling slide in my lathe.
I would like to make a tool and Cutter Grinder set-up.
I have detailed plans for the following:
- Bonelle Tool and Cutter grinder (Freeware)
- Raymac (Model Engineer's Workshop)
- Harold Hall's Cutter and Grinder table plans in Workshop series books.
- I can buy the Tinker plans, but I am not convinced it is better than the first three mentioned.
I like the simplicity of Mr Hall's set-up. I can very easy adapt an existing bench grinder or build a new one to suit my needs. The Raymac is also allowing me to use an existing grinders or my own. The same with the Tinker. I am a bit scared of the Bonelle as it is rather a large project and I don't have a users manual to read first. If I make it don't know how to use it.
What would you advised me to do?
It appears to me that the answer is in Mr Hall's set-up or the Raymac or both. Why is Mr Hall using his own design if he can very easily make an advanced cutter grinder with his experience. If his own design works for him, it must work for me, a person with less experience. I will also soon have my own metal casting set-up so then I can make more advanced projects. although I prefer to work without castings. I will of course also draw a 3D CAD drawing in both assembled and exploded to get a better perspective of what must be done and what goes where.
Regards,
Johan
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8th October 2012 05:42 AM # ADSGoogle Adsense Advertisement
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8th October 2012, 06:44 AM #2Philomath in training
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Harold Hall's design was developed as part of his book on tool & cutter grinding but also as a contribution to MEW. From memory it is basic in function/ operation.
I think the Bonnelle is a development of a 'Quorn' T&C grinder. A far more complex beast that will take quite some time to make. In the UK a number of Quorns end up as display pieces in Model engineering shows. I don't know whether they get used for grinding work though.
A couple of people here were thinking about building a Raymac. It may be the best choice because you can swap ideas/ issues and progress stories with others.
Michael
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8th October 2012, 04:19 PM #3
Hi Jors,
I am one of the members Michael mentioned. I decided on the raymac cause it is simpler to build than the bonnelle, requires no castings and the plans are free. Best of all there is the how to write up in MEW for both the build and using it.1915 17"x50" LeBlond heavy duty Lathe, 24" Queen city shaper, 1970's G Vernier FV.3.TO Universal Mill, 1958 Blohm HFS 6 surface grinder, 1942 Rivett 715 Lathe, 14"x40" Antrac Lathe, Startrite H225 Bandsaw, 1949 Hercus Camelback Drill press, 1947 Holbrook C10 Lathe.
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9th October 2012, 05:10 AM #4
I have the five part article on the Raymac's plans. Are there any other articles as well, or is everything in the five articles. I am now referring to
No 76, Pages 33 - 39.
No 77, Pages 21 - 26.
No 78, Pages 23 - 29.
No 79, Pages 36 - 41,
No 80, Pages 42 - 46
I will also have to change the plan to metric. I think I will have to draw it in CAD in 3D, but in Metric, or I must draw in imperial and just convert. If drawn in 3d, it is so much easier to understand and see what you are up against.Regards
Johan
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9th October 2012, 07:39 AM #5GOLD MEMBER
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Hi,
Isn't the Harold Hall design more of an endmill sharpener that can do a few other things, rather than a full-on T&C grinder like the Quorn?
Stuart
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9th October 2012, 10:14 AM #6Philomath in training
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I think of Harold's grinder (rest) as something that will do HSS lathe tools and can also do the end of endmills. It is nothing like as sophisticated as a Quorn. Even the Quorn is limited as it can not do drill bits in the 'normal' way, but sharpens them using a 4 facet method (similar to the viper bits being discussed a while back). At one stage I saw some plans in MEW (I think) for a Cannon cutter grinder - so called because it looked like an old naval cannon. It was used just for endmills, but I'd be more tempted to get one of those wedged shaped blocks that go onto a surface grinder mag table (if you had one) as bench grinders are not really designed for precision work (unlike angle grinders )
MichaelLast edited by Michael G; 9th October 2012 at 10:15 AM. Reason: correction
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9th October 2012, 01:45 PM #7
I think that the Quorn and similar grinders are based on the Deckel SO grinder. Even the Chinese make copies. The one thing they are good at is sharpening "D-bit" tools as used in pantographs. They can be used to gash the ends of endmills. So what? That's not where all the wear is: ignoring the flutes ain't an effective endmill restoration.
The best solutions for endmill sharpening incorporate an almost frictionless spindle...usually an air bearing. Google videos for the Darex E90 sharpener for illustrations/inspirations.
If you have the space and power real T & C grinders are auctioned frequently & cheaply enough to be your first choice. I bought and later sold a set of Quorn castings once I stumbled across an E90 Darex clone. Bargains are out there if you are not in a hurry. For example I purchased a Darex drill sharpener* in the US because it had the un-American 240 volt motor, new, for $200. Same thing in 120v retails for $1800.00.
Turns out it was mis-labelled. Transformers are cheap.
*real metal workers can do this for free, freehand. I cannot in the sizes I most use, hence the purchase.
GQIt's all part of the service here at The House of Pain™
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9th October 2012, 02:04 PM #8Philomath in training
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Greg, I'm sure I read somewhere that you had God like metalworking abilities.
You're not suggesting that report was a piece of fiction are you?
Michael
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9th October 2012, 02:47 PM #9
No no, I do. Its just that the God in question is Thor. So if it can be beaten with a hammer, I am your man. That goes for everything: Metal, carpentry, cooking, speed cameras, dinner time survey callers, precision bearing installation, the neighbour's cat. It's all good.
GQIt's all part of the service here at The House of Pain™
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9th October 2012, 04:43 PM #10
Not wishing to question Greg's god like abilities, (he does seem to have divine help finding bargains ) but this seems to me like good advice, there happens to be one in the ebay thread at present...
Hafco Tool and Cutter Grinder | eBay
Regards
Ray
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10th October 2012, 04:18 PM #11.
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While searching for home made air spindles, I found this on PM. Interesting use of a fork staunchion and slider as an ersatz spindle.
Home built end mill grinder
BT
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16th October 2012, 02:52 AM #12
There is another Tool and cutter grinder on the market in plan formats.
Machinery Plans
It is the Acto Tool and Cutter Grinder. The plans cost $70 Australian.
There are no expensive castings to buy. The Acto uses only two pieces of cast iron, one for the main body and one for the end or slot mill spindle housing which is available “off the shelf” from suitable suppliers. The rest of the materials are stock material that can be bought from several suppliers. There are a few parts that needs to be welded against each other: Silver soldered, MIG or TIG welded.
- The Actro grinds the end cutting face and also the side helix of end and slot mills.
- Grinds radiuses on all manner of cutting tools, from simple lathe tools to more complex tooling jigs and form tools.
- Sharpens drills up to 25mm (straight shank) or 23mm (2MT).
- Also sharpens slitting saws up to 200mm diameter, side and face cutters, plus a huge range of general workshop equipment.
- Many woodworking tools may also be sharpened in the Acto.
- Grinds all manner of carbide tools with the correct wheel on grinder.
The original Acto was first built approximately 10 years ago (Around the year 2000) and has undergone various modifications and upgrades in the years since, the most recent being the inclusion of a stand incorporating a component storage cabinet below and is added as an appendix if anyone should care to build this useful addition for their T&C grinder.
Unlike many engineering drawings which complexity requires hours of pouring over detailed data, the plans for the Acto are probably the most user friendly you will ever come across. They are simple and easy to understand with every single component drawn separately and then redrawn as an assembly with either one or up to six views.
Plus, the Acto with its unique design solves many of the problems associated with using your existing workshop grinder as a grinding head.
Included with the plans are over 45 photos of various components, many assemblies and all attachments. Also there are over 16 pages of detailed machining, assembly and operating instructions, which makes the building of the Acto easy for the novice or competent machinist alike.
The plans are quite easy to understand and to make. The most difficult parts are the dovetails. This design make use of an adapted bench grinder, however I believe one can also make your own grinder. This design also make use of a set of guide rails that make this design in easy reach of the maker.Regards
Johan
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17th October 2012, 06:47 AM #13
I found another design in Model Engineer's Workshop number 16 page 60 for the first part, and another follow-up in another magazine.
It is a design by Derek Brooks and make use of stock parts. The design looks promising.Regards
Johan
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17th October 2012, 07:32 AM #14
You could also check this out.It is in Tasmania so freight might be a problem.
eBay Australia: Buy new & used fashion, electronics & home dCheers from Micheal.
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