Thread: What is a Toolroom lathe?

Both,it would generally be used in a toolroom enviroment although some job shops do have toolroom quallity machines.
The toolroom lathes are generally built to a high tollerance level that toolrooms would require.

Today it means SFA, historically it used to mean lathes that came with every accessory under the sun so in the toolroom you could do lots of things with them...

Toolroom lathes are one of those mythical things that no one really knows what they are (that is, what is and isn't one)
Typically they will be well equipped and featured (as a toolroom will have to do a wide variety of jobs) and have high standards (when new) of accuracy. This means that they will need to be rigid as well and have wide ranges of speeds and feeds.
Although unsubstantiated, a couple of definitions I have heard used in the past are -

• The bed width is greater than the centre height
• Able to have the direction of feed changed on the apron

These are not exclusive - some toolroom machines will have these features and some won't, so I would suggest that an overriding aspect is that by general consensus a lathe would have to be recognised as being of 'toolroom quality'. Lathes by makers such as Monarch, CVA, Hendey, Hardinge, Okuma and others have all been called toolroom lathes


Michael

"tool room" is the name you give a lathe when you want more money for it

My old work had an abused Takisawa lathe and a Sasta lathe, I would call both quality tool room machines because using them is a dream! both very accurate and heavy built, compare them to a Colchester and there's no competition

Oh and If I see a lathe with a soft start clutch i instantly know its a good machine

My understanding is toolroom means designed not for production, that is repetitive or heavy work, but more for close tolerance, one-off stuff. But any definition is rubbery. For instance, the Grazianos were supposed to be toolroom lathes, but could be ordered with copy turning attachments.

Edit: Nothing in my Graz literature mentions toolroom, so that label may be apocryphal.

Originally Posted by Bryan

My understanding is toolroom means designed not for production, that is repetitive or heavy work, but more for close tolerance, one-off stuff. But any definition is rubbery. For instance, the Grazianos were supposed to be toolroom lathes, but could be ordered with copy turning attachments.

Edit: Nothing in my Graz literature mentions toolroom, so that label may be apocryphal.

Hydrolic copy turning wasn't strictly for production they had capstans and even NC/CNC machines from mid last century. If you look at literature for tracer attachments for mills they were more useful in the tool and die shops than a standard production line.

A Boley 5LZ.

Photo lifted from Tony's website. More info here about this delight. Page Title

"Means SFA" my A###!!!

Toolroom lathes existed and exist now. If you were lucky enough to work for the defense dept research laboratories in Maribyrnong during the 1950's to 1980's, then you would know. Dean Smith and Grace, Studer, some of the better Graziano's and Schaublin's. My goodness what excellent machines. So many machines that Germany, Austria and Switzerland produced were just remarkable in terms of their accuracy and precision. Though not lathes, but working on Swiss SIP jig borers with the optical readouts was such a pleasure. Pretty much it was the Govt that could afford these very high priced machines.

Sadly, what most people see are the crap that H&F sell from China and think that it's good stuff.

I am on the hunt for such a lathe. I have is a Hercus that my Father bought in 1970 but my mill is a Thiel 158 (go on, google image it). It came from the Govt Aircraft Factory toolroom (where toolroom lathes were located). If I bought another larger lathe, I would still keep my little Hercus.

It does depend on the shop, but in my opinion (and so of many of my former colleagues) Toolroom lathes were superior in every way compared to the run of the mill lathe (no pun intended).

Accessories for our Toolroom lathes often were bought from Hettler trading: http://www.hettlertrading.com.au. You will notice under toolholders the original 'multifix' Swiss toolholders that others are now copying.

George

A Toolroom Lathe is a very special and specific form of lathe. The photo of the Boley is an average example. The lathes were very solid with a heavy main spindle and very precise fitted ways and slides. They are extremely accurate and are virtually vibration free. They are used for machining all kinds of punches for hole piercing, boring and machining special dies usually in a four jaw but a very solid face plate was also used. The tool steels these lathes were machining demanded a very rigid machine that could turn to very small tolerances. They were designed to produce only one or three or twenty off more or less and were a joy to use. Most of the steels that I machined were air hardening and were very hard even in the annealed state. Alas, they are not seen much these days as CNC lathes can produce the same work a lot quicker. If you ever come across one for sale, they are definitely worth a second and a third look at. All the ones I have seen when I was an apprentice, were only about 26"/28" between centers at at most.

"The photo of the Boley is an average example."

Just shows how little I know. Still, I 'd be more than happy with average.

Bob the Dilettante.

ps. I could have just as easily copied and pasted photos of a DS&G, a CVA or a Rivett 1020 toolroom lathe, but I simply chose something that I find particularly attractive and there are a bunch of great photos of the Boley on Tony's site. I might have my head up my #### but I don't care.

Bob, Boley is a good brand. Without putting words in Kody's mouth I suspect that he used the word 'average' as meaning 'typical'.
The Boley you have pictured is a precision lathe and may have been used more for one off work (eg optical fitting) rather than making hard tooling.
Interestingly both the Monarch and CVA have an MT2 tailstock, supposedly to limit the tooling used in them. Toolroom lathes were not expected to hog off large amounts of material in one go but to be able to remove material in a precise fashion. The dials on the CVA are graduated in thous (on diameter) and are large enough to easily move the dial 1/2 a division - that is, if I could sharpen a tool well enough my lathe should be able to take a 1/4 thou DOC.

Michael

Originally Posted by GZBMW

Dean Smith and Grace, Studer, some of the better Graziano's and Schaublin's.

Which ones would you consider the better Grazianos, George, and why?

Originally Posted by Anorak Bob

A Boley 5LZ.

Photo lifted from Tony's website. More info here about this delight. Page Title

May I suggest to please read the "Page Title" & stare at the magnificent photos, that accompany it.
Thats for those that may not have already done so.
This lathe is a piece of incredible beauty & design & workmanship.
The scraped slides, generous saddle & compound slide, main bearings & features that one "would walk barefooted over broken glass to get to"
A marvellous piece of engineering. Totally !
regards
Bruce