Thread: My new toy, Deckel FP1

Originally Posted by Ueee

Peter, most FP1's have 2 speed motors, hence the problem with wiring for 240v. Since you have already said your is only single speed then it should not be nearly so hard to wire in delta.

Hi Ewan.
i was wrong. it is two speeds motor .
Peter

Then it would be far easier to change the motor out and for a new 3 phase single speed and run it on a VFD. That would be cheaper than having the original motor re-wired.

Originally Posted by Ueee

Then it would be far easier to change the motor out and for a new 3 phase single speed and run it on a VFD. That would be cheaper than having the original motor re-wired.

ah.
lucky I have one 2.2kw and one 1.5kw can wire to 240v delta model .
see pictures attached. do you know this brand ? are they any good ?
Peter

Peter,

ABB is a huge multinational electrical manufacturer based in Zurich, with a long history in heavy electrical industry.
"Known good" would understate the case, but I expect they are now manufacturing in low labour cost countries like everyone else.

I notice your ABB motor is a four pole one (1440rpm), but suspect the FP1 motor is six pole with a slower running speed. If that is the case, you could us a smaller motor pulley on the ABB motor to get the speeds right. Just turning down the speed with the VFD would be another way to go.

My FP1 is a later model with different details around the handwheels, but I may have some data on the older models - will search the archives.
I think you are also after details of the single lever feed design at the lower end. Again mine had a design change, but I thought Variant posted an exploded diagram of that system, maybe as per your model. Let me know if you are looking for something else.

Cheers,
Bill

Hi Peter,

Looks like you are well on the way to getting it going.. ABB is a top brand, Asea Brown Boveri Part Swedish part Swiss, the 2.2Kw would be ideal. Providing the mounting and shaft sizes can be made to match up.

You aren't wasting any time getting it set up.. can you check what arbor you have whether it's a SK40 or a morse taper, I recall seeing buttress thread draw bars on that machine when I was talking to Dale about it.

I'll second the suggestion of getting some shear pins from Herr Franz Singer... possible the only economical thing he sells

Ray

Originally Posted by RayG

Hi Peter,

Looks like you are well on the way to getting it going.. ABB is a top brand, Asea Brown Boveri Part Swedish part Swiss, the 2.2Kw would be ideal. Providing the mounting and shaft sizes can be made to match up.

You aren't wasting any time getting it set up.. can you check what arbor you have whether it's a SK40 or a morse taper, I recall seeing buttress thread draw bars on that machine when I was talking to Dale about it.

I'll second the suggestion of getting some shear pins from Herr Franz Singer... possible the only economical thing he sells

Ray

Hi Ray.
not really . it might still take awhile before i can get it running . there is problem with the powerfeed mech that I haven't got it workout yet . yeah lucky i have some of those ABB motor around which can run on 415v/240v . this enable me to run VFD . so this part seem to be ok for now
the machine has MT4 Arbor , i just checking manually engage the feed for Hozirontal and vertical and all seem to engage alright so i assume the shear pin is ok ?
if you ever come to Western suburb . drop in for a beer or cofee . i'd love to hear some of your advice.
i also heard Phil have two of the FP1 so i might send him an PM soon see if he got some parts I need for mine
cheers
Peter

Hi Peter...

Nice looking machne, looks like a very late version of that generation FP1.

The way to check the power feeds is to engage the axis (one at a time, although both will engage. Then turn that bakelite handwheel at the back of the machine. If there is no deeper problem the axis should remain engaged.

The shear pin lives under the little black spring clip on the lowermost feed shaft, close to the front. Turning the bakelite handwheel should turn the feed gear train which should reveal if the pin is busted. Don't use anything steel in there under motor power, but for now you can use a 1/8 pop rivet

The table is from an FP2 (sigh). The tee slot spacing is common to the FP1 as are all of the accessories like dividing head and rotary table.

Your vertical head (if morse taper 4) may be the bushing type (as opposed to the needle roller bearing type which is non trivial to overhaul. The bushing type requires frequent oiling because it is total loss. The bearing types were all SK40.

There was an active Deckel group on Practical Machinist last time I looked.

I do not have any parts left...maybe some collets. Of course there are plenty of morse 4:ER40 collet chucks available.

Take the body off the base (32mm bolts), take a handfull of anti-nausea pills and clean out all the manky gunk from the sump. Then seal it off so you don't have to ever do that again. I think stripped the body weighs <500 kg.

The control rod disconnected makes me wonder....as does the missing Z axis handwheel plus indexing wheel. Those parts are available from $inger.

Did you get all the changegears? They come in pairs with the total tooth count always 100.

Greg

Originally Posted by Greg Q

Hi Peter...

Nice looking machne, looks like a very late version of that generation FP1.

The way to check the power feeds is to engage the axis (one at a time, although both will engage. Then turn that bakelite handwheel at the back of the machine. If there is no deeper problem the axis should remain engaged.

The shear pin lives under the little black spring clip on the lowermost feed shaft, close to the front. Turning the bakelite handwheel should turn the feed gear train which should reveal if the pin is busted. Don't use anything steel in there under motor power, but for now you can use a 1/8 pop rivet

The table is from an FP2 (sigh). The tee slot spacing is common to the FP1 as are all of the accessories like dividing head and rotary table.

Your vertical head (if morse taper 4) may be the bushing type (as opposed to the needle roller bearing type which is non trivial to overhaul. The bushing type requires frequent oiling because it is total loss. The bearing types were all SK40.

There was an active Deckel group on Practical Machinist last time I looked.

I do not have any parts left...maybe some collets. Of course there are plenty of morse 4:ER40 collet chucks available.

Take the body off the base (32mm bolts), take a handfull of anti-nausea pills and clean out all the manky gunk from the sump. Then seal it off so you don't have to ever do that again. I think stripped the body weighs <500 kg.

The control rod disconnected makes me wonder....as does the missing Z axis handwheel plus indexing wheel. Those parts are available from $inger.

Did you get all the changegears? They come in pairs with the total tooth count always 100.

Greg

Thanks Greg.
no i didn't get any space change gears with this machine . must be some where on that auction shed but thing's are all over place so hard to find them . sure some winning bidder at the auction might have some of my Deckel stuff mixed up there .
i'm not fuss about the indexing wheel and the hand wheel being original or not. I just get the hand wheel i got here to fit in and use it as is .
regards
peter

Originally Posted by WCD

Peter,

ABB is a huge multinational electrical manufacturer based in Zurich, with a long history in heavy electrical industry.
"Known good" would understate the case, but I expect they are now manufacturing in low labour cost countries like everyone else.

I notice your ABB motor is a four pole one (1440rpm), but suspect the FP1 motor is six pole with a slower running speed. If that is the case, you could us a smaller motor pulley on the ABB motor to get the speeds right. Just turning down the speed with the VFD would be another way to go.

My FP1 is a later model with different details around the handwheels, but I may have some data on the older models - will search the archives.
I think you are also after details of the single lever feed design at the lower end. Again mine had a design change, but I thought Variant posted an exploded diagram of that system, maybe as per your model. Let me know if you are looking for something else.

Cheers,
Bill

Hi Bill.
Thanks. i will do that on the ABB motor . if you can help . i need to know what kind of Bolt the use on the link arm end ( opposite end of the feed box ) and the details of the feedbox mech arrangement . this two thing's i want to get done first then the hand wheel being next .
Peter

Peter let me see if I can find the backed-up copies of my treasure trove of early FP1 info.

In the meantime maybe Anorak Bob has some links for you.

Make sure you get some very light spindle oil for the vertical head. The horizontal is lubed by wicks hanging down into the gear oil. You'll also need a heavy way oil for the three axes ways.

The drive goes from the motor via vee belt to the upper pulley located coaxial with the black handwheel. Coaxial with that is a chain drive sprocket which drives a long chain back down to the feed gear mechanism. From one of the two feed shafts there is another chain drive mechanism to drive the mechanical coolant pump which sits in the sump. The gears have dogs on them which engage when mounted to either of the shafts.

The gears by the way are 14.5° pressure angle, but a metric module (i still have an unused cutter set of the correct module...I think its module 1.5)

You can still purchase horizontal cutter arbors in a variety of sizes from a couple of suppliers. The Germans call morse four MK4, by the way. (Morse konus)

The missing Z axis index wheel might not be significant as it would be imperial anyway. You might find a DRO cheaper than the real part from Singer.

The FP1 is a great small mill for anything shoebox size or smaller, although you can mill anything you can mount to it.

Greg

Originally Posted by thorens

Hi Bill.
Thanks. i will do that on the ABB motor . if you can help . i need to know what kind of Bolt the use on the link arm end ( opposite end of the feed box ) and the details of the feedbox mech arrangement . this two thing's i want to get done first then the hand wheel being next .
Peter

Peter,

I have attached some drawings of your model FP1 feed gearing, showing the change gears and the shear pin. I presume your Deckel came with some change gears fitted to the feed gearbox. If not, the feeds will have no drive at all.

Here are some close photos of the link arm ends you asked about on my later model FP1.
The link arm end details are almost certainly different from yours, but here are the photos anyway.

Cheers,
Bill

Not maybe Peter. Send me a PM containing your email address and I'll wire you a FP1 catalogue illustrating the myriad accessories that were available in 1966.

Bob.

Originally Posted by WCD

Peter,

I have attached some drawings of your model FP1 feed gearing, showing the change gears and the shear pin. I presume your Deckel came with some change gears fitted to the feed gearbox. If not, the feeds will have no drive at all.

Here are some close photos of the link arm ends you asked about on my later model FP1.
The link arm end details are almost certainly different from yours, but here are the photos anyway.

Cheers,
Bill

thanks Bill.
my link arm is similar , i think that screw for the link arm is broken on my , the reason i think it is , is because it missing this screw but the hole did not clear throughout , i can see it stuck half way when i test the hole with the screw driver about the length of the threaded area of the screw you show on your picture . i'd like to see your feed box details when you have time to take some pictures of it. if it open like mine .a bit hard to take pictures through . picture attached is under my feed box.
now this should be hard to take the broken screw off this hole unless i can take that part off but how ? any one know ?

@ Hi Bob.
I will send you an email shortly

cheers
Peter

[QUOTE=thorens;1847797 i'd like to see your feed box details when you have time to take some pictures of it. if it open like mine .a bit hard to take pictures through . picture attached is under my feed box.
now this should be hard to take the broken screw off this hole unless i can take that part off but how ? any one know ?
[/QUOTE]

Peter,
Busted screw in that location sounds nasty. See photo of the complete shaft (taken when I had the saddle completely apart because it had been lubed with grease!). I removed the shaft by removing the top end, but did not attempt to remove the taper pin at the lower end. Doing that without extracting the shaft from the saddle would be difficult on account of access alone, but given my problems removing other Deckel taper pins I would be leaving that pin alone. If I recollect correctly, it is possible to get to the top of the shaft in my photo without removing the saddle, but with the X slide removed.

Looking at your photos of the lower end of the feed shift lever, it seems that you are missing a spherical element that slides on the lower end of the lever. See photo attached.

X feed selector shaft.jpglower end feed shift lever.jpg

Cheers,
Bill