Thread: My new toy, Deckel FP1

Beautiful machine Peter! Worth the wait.

The original table is a four slotter, that extra slot won't go astray but may cause a problem if the slots don't share the original's spacing. And that is only if any of the numerous accessories require two slot fixing. The table looks to be in good nick as does the mill. I'm sure you have poured over every FP1 photo there is online. For others that may be interested here's a photo of the Deutsches Museum's FP1 showing the table - https://www.woodworkforums.com/showth...15#post1554315

Glen Murphy "BrianLara" has a Riken, a Japanese copy of the FP1. Glen may have knowledge of the power feed. Glen spends time on the Gunsmithing forum. Sadly our resident Deckel expert, Gregory Q, only makes the occasional cameo appearance these days. He might respond to a PM.

Bob.

Originally Posted by Anorak Bob

Beautiful machine Peter! Worth the wait.

The original table is a four slotter, that extra slot won't go astray but may cause a problem if the slots don't share the original's spacing. And that is only if any of the numerous accessories require two slot fixing. The table looks to be in good nick as does the mill. I'm sure you have poured over every FP1 photo there is online. For others that may be interested here's a photo of the Deutsches Museum's FP1 showing the table - https://www.woodworkforums.com/showth...15#post1554315

Glen Murphy "BrianLara" has a Riken, a Japanese copy of the FP1. Glen may have knowledge of the power feed. Glen spends time on the Gunsmithing forum. Sadly our resident Deckel expert, Gregory Q, only makes the occasional cameo appearance these days. He might respond to a PM.

Bob.

thank you Bob.
the table that came with this machine is definately Deckel origin however I don't know which model deckel this table might come from .
i'm now more interested to get the power feed machizime back to where it should . i know there is feel FP1 owner in our Forum so this will be mybig opportunity to get help .

Cheers
Peter

Peter, I have an FP2. I would first check the shear pin. Make sure it is not broken as it stops the feed in the case of a crash. I can check the FP1 manual later and get back to you regarding the mechanism. You could look it up over on PM in the Deckel zone. There would likely be photos of the feed setup over there.

Originally Posted by variant22

Peter, I have an FP2. I would first check the shear pin. Make sure it is not broken as it stops the feed in the case of a crash. I can check the FP1 manual later and get back to you regarding the mechanism. You could look it up over on PM in the Deckel zone. There would likely be photos of the feed setup over there.

Thanks .
yes please look up for me the feed mechnism setup . i don't really know where the shear pin located. may be it broken , the lever now have no click affect at all when try to engage feed .i took the photo under the feed mechanism , it in in the last couple photos above .
i will have to registered on the deckel forum to see if there is photos of the feed set up
regards
Peter

I took some photos last time I took my FP1 apart. https://hyllest.wordpress.com/2012/1...-a-deckel-fp1/

The last two photos show the shear pins in the feed mechanism.


I just went outside and snapped a shot of that link arm on mine. Hope it's useful.
IMAG0375[1].jpg

With regard to the VSD, I found that I couldn't get the original motor to work. Wiring it in delta didn't seem to help- I suspect it's because it's a two speed motor and it runs star at one speed and delta in another... Or maybe I just need to go back to electron school.

In the end I just slapped on another 3ph motor I had lying around and ran that off the VSD. I bypassed the switch on the machine and replaced it with a mount for my VSD.

Originally Posted by Diomedes

I took some photos last time I took my FP1 apart. https://hyllest.wordpress.com/2012/1...-a-deckel-fp1/

The last two photos show the shear pins in the feed mechanism.


I just went outside and snapped a shot of that link arm on mine. Hope it's useful.
IMAG0375[1].jpg

With regard to the VSD, I found that I couldn't get the original motor to work. Wiring it in delta didn't seem to help- I suspect it's because it's a two speed motor and it runs star at one speed and delta in another... Or maybe I just need to go back to electron school.

In the end I just slapped on another 3ph motor I had lying around and ran that off the VSD. I bypassed the switch on the machine and replaced it with a mount for my VSD.

Thanks Buddy .
so the link arm end used some kind of screw ? i thought it was a shear pin mine is missing so i need to find a suitable screw for that one. can you help me take a shot on the feed box ? i think there should be a pin there to stop the lever end bar to go freely ?
i need the photos under that lever box.
cheers
Peter

Was that from the Auction at West Heidelberg ? Held last week . They had a lot of high quality machinery

Originally Posted by thorens

Thanks Buddy .
so the link arm end used some kind of screw ? i thought it was a shear pin mine is missing so i need to find a suitable screw for that one. can you help me take a shot on the feed box ? i think there should be a pin there to stop the lever end bar to go freely ?
i need the photos under that lever box.
cheers
Peter

Do you mean the other end? Like this?

IMAG0376[1].jpg

Originally Posted by Diomedes

Do you mean the other end? Like this?

IMAG0376[1].jpg

thanks.
yes that end but i need a shot underneath that where it shows some mechanism of the lever above
regards
Peter

Originally Posted by morrisman

Was that from the Auction at West Heidelberg ? Held last week . They had a lot of high quality machinery

yep that is it.
Peter

Originally Posted by morrisman

Was that from the Auction at West Heidelberg ? Held last week . They had a lot of high quality machinery

Mike: Anything in particular that you liked?


Peter: Careful with the shear pin. They are made out of a specific grade of steel that readily breaks in the event of an accident. If you make your own and pick the wrong material you could destroy your gear train if you have a crash. I would buy 10 of them from Franz Singer. I got them for my FP2 from him and they were cheap - certainly not worth the risk given the miniscule cost.

See the following images from the FP1 parts manuals. Note that the first image (only shows the feed mechanism) is from a later FP1. The second image is from an earlier FP1 like yours. The third image is the FP1 shear pin detail from the manual.

fp1_feed_lever_1.jpg fp1_feed_lever_2.jpg fp1_shear_pin.jpg

Another thing I should probably mention is that my FP2 only feeds when running forwards. The FP1 may well be the same. So if you are accidentally running the motor or turning the spindle in reverse then it may not feed (by design).

Originally Posted by variant22

Another thing I should probably mention is that my FP2 only feeds when running forwards. The FP1 may well be the same. So if you are accidentally running the motor or turning the spindle in reverse then it may not feed (by design).

That does apply to the FP1.

Peter,
It looks as if there has been a problem with the feeds and someone has uncoupled the external linkages in the mistaken belief that is the place to start looking for a solution. You can easily test the feeds by manually operating the feed levers on the saddle (ie the ones that would be moved if the linkages were in place). They will be quite hard to move by hand, but should click into engagement (you may have to turn the feed handwheels a bit to line up the internal dog clutches so the feeds can engage). If the feeds do not work, the most likely explanation is that the shear pin is broken. If you make another shear pin yourself be sure (as mentioned) to use soft steel, and make sure the shear pin does not extent through to the other side. It must be only in single shear - not double shear.

Your FP1 looks to be in nice condition, and hopefully the saddle has been lubricated with oil, not grease!

Re the motor, there was a thread somewhere in which the possibility of rewiring these pole changing motors to a 'double delta' configuration for 240V was explored, but I was not that adventurous. Also I wanted to keep the original face-mount Siemens motor, so had my FP1 motor rewound to 240v and am now finalising the VFD setup.
With a foot mounted motor as on your FP1 the easy way is to get a standard foot-mounted 3 phase motor (preferably running at the same speed as the low speed of your original motor), wire the motor in delta, and use the VFD to give you the high motor speed when needed.

Enjoy!
Cheers,
Bill

Originally Posted by WCD

That does apply to the FP1.

Peter,
It looks as if there has been a problem with the feeds and someone has uncoupled the external linkages in the mistaken belief that is the place to start looking for a solution. You can easily test the feeds by manually operating the feed levers on the saddle (ie the ones that would be moved if the linkages were in place). They will be quite hard to move by hand, but should click into engagement (you may have to turn the feed handwheels a bit to line up the internal dog clutches so the feeds can engage). If the feeds do not work, the most likely explanation is that the shear pin is broken. If you make another shear pin yourself be sure (as mentioned) to use soft steel, and make sure the shear pin does not extent through to the other side. It must be only in single shear - not double shear.

Your FP1 looks to be in nice condition, and hopefully the saddle has been lubricated with oil, not grease!

Re the motor, there was a thread somewhere in which the possibility of rewiring these pole changing motors to a 'double delta' configuration for 240V was explored, but I was not that adventurous. Also I wanted to keep the original face-mount Siemens motor, so had my FP1 motor rewound to 240v and am now finalising the VFD setup.
With a foot mounted motor as on your FP1 the easy way is to get a standard foot-mounted 3 phase motor (preferably running at the same speed as the low speed of your original motor), wire the motor in delta, and use the VFD to give you the high motor speed when needed.

Enjoy!
Cheers,
Bill

Hi Bill.
thanks. I did manually engage the feed on the saddle and it seem click in and off ok but i haven't got the hand wheel working yet so i can't test it working condition . would you able to give me a couple shots on your hand wheel see how it arranged ? also under the feed box where the lever end engage the feed ?
is the hand wheel supose to go into the threaded area ? because that is where the slotted pin is so it can hold the wheel in place ?
also what wrong with the original motor wired in Delta mod and run VFD ? i must missed something's here ?
regards
Peter