Thread: Vactra Way Oil

Originally Posted by Anorak Bob

So Pete,

How do you lube that gear on the No. O?

BT

I think I used chain and bar oil last time Bob. However maybe I will indeed use grease next time I have it off. One section I definitely need to get more grease for is in the z axis gearbox on the grinder. The viscosity of the grease provides enough resistance to stop the weight of the handle flopping the adjustment back against the backlash. When I bought the machine I cleaned all the usual grease out of the fittings and passages, and alsocleaned out the gearbox. There's more than enough grease in there now to lubricate, but it clearly needs to be packed in tight enough to provide the resistance.

Pete

Originally Posted by simonl

That's interesting. I thought mine only had the front oil drain because of the large gear prevented oil being splashed into the bearing. However I think it may have been overlooked. I don't think it make too much difference on the rear bearing because I have had the rear oil seal/labyrinth off with the lathe running and plenty of oil seeps through.

BTW my headstock look identical to yours!

Thanks for going to the trouble.

Simon

Hi Simon
If you have a look you will find most if not all 12 x 36 lathes have the same spindle gear box and it's only the bottom threading box that varies until you step up to the heavier 12 x 36 lathes.
That channel runs right around the headstock so whatever gear splashes it up will fill it, and feed the both bearings.

Dave

Originally Posted by pipeclay

Will you be using the lubricant purchased on machines that will be in regular use,up to 12hrs per day,or on CNC or high speed production machines,or just on an occasionally used machine,say 12 to 18 hrs a week.

Hi Pipeclay,

One other thing has occured to me too. My feed rate gearbox which sits under the headstock is not immersed in an oil bath, rather it has oil points. The oil points direct oil (under gravity) onto the bearings and gears. I have been using hydraulic oil (same as headstock) for this and found that it almost instantly falls through onto the drip tray and only offers minimal lubrication. I am hopeing that by using a thicker oil such as the type reccomended, that it will do a better job. I know some people use chain and bar oil and I recently bought 4 L of the stuff for my chainsaw but I paid $20 for 4L of that too! I may as well have a crack at buying the proper stuff and see how it goes.

Cheers mate.

Also for anyone interested including Chris (AKA Jack) I will be purchasing some waylube 68 from true blue. If anyone down my way wants to share the postage costs and get some too let me know. I will be ringing them at about midday today.

Cheers,

Simon

Simon,
If your buying Vactra I would recommend you buy the Vactra 4 as it will stay put. I did a lot of looking and reading and a lot of people seem to think the 2 is just to light for the lathe without the tacktifier and they use the 4.
Even Paula over on the Southbend PM forum has recommended it for Southbends as she feels the 2 was too light as well and would just run off.

Dave

Originally Posted by Dave J

Simon,
If your buying Vactra I would recommend you buy the Vactra 4 as it will stay put. I did a lot of looking and reading and a lot of people seem to think the 2 is just to light for the lathe without the tacktifier and they use the 4.
Even Paula over on the Southbend PM forum has recommended it for Southbends as she feels the 2 was too light as well and would just run off.

Dave

Thanks Dave,

Since I have had little to no interest from other people wanting Vactra I will just buy the waylube 68 from True Blue. Mind you the price that I was quoted seemed a very cheap price at about $90 for a 20L drum. At $20 for 5L I'm prepared to give it a go. I'm hopeing it will quieten down my feed gears too.

It was good to see that even a thread that has been done to death previously still attracts much discussion.

Cheers,

Simon

If your going another brand I would go for the 68, but Vactra I would go for the 4.
The tech guy also said it depends on climate, coming into summer he recommended Vactra 4.

Dave

When you mention feed gears are you refering to the Quick change or the Gear train at the Headstock?

Originally Posted by pipeclay

When you mention feed gears are you refering to the Quick change or the Gear train at the Headstock?

No, the gears that change your feed rate and/or thread cutting selection using the two tumbler levers that is directly under the headstock. Actually its' not quite under it but just below it. I'm assuming the quick change gears are at the back inside the metal or fibreglass cover.

See attached picture. (Illustration purposes only)

Originally Posted by simonl

It was good to see that even a thread that has been done to death previously still attracts much discussion.

Cheers,

Simon

Few things attract as much interest and debate as to what oil to put in our precious machines. In some regards I'm with Pete (Pipeclay) in the point he was presumably making, our machines aren't getting hammered 12 hours a day in high load environments as machines used in a production environment would, so within reason as long as they're lubed regularly with something half close to the right thing they'll be just fine. I guess the other side of the coin is that this is indeed a hobby for most here and if we want to research and pay for the best lubricant for our machines, why not! Given that still a rather large percentage of the population choose to send far more than a 20 l drum of both way lube and spindle oil literally up in smoke each year, or pee it against a wall, there are clearly worse things to spend money on!

Pete

The Quick change is the Norton type box that you pointed to in your picture,the other Gears are the Gear train,located at the Left side of the Headstock behind the cover you mention.

The Gear train is used to give the correct ratio to the Quick change,enabling you to cut the desired TPI/MM Pitch and feed rate you desire.

If you have excessive noise coming from the Quick change box there maybe a problem inside it,normally the Quick change boxes are quite in opperation irrespective if they are Sealed or Total Loss as yours is.

The majority of Gear noise generally comes from the Gear train,as these are normally the only Gears that you are able to adjust clearances on.

Normally a noisy Gear train will indicate a lack of clearance between the gears.

On some Lathes with noisy Quick changes I have discovered the the Gears are damaged or the Bearing areas of where the Lay shafts run are worn.

A lot of the damage caused to the Quick change is the result of people not stopping the lathe before attempting to change Feeds etc.

Originally Posted by pipeclay

The Quick change is the Norton type box that you pointed to in your picture,the other Gears are the Gear train,located at the Left side of the Headstock behind the cover you mention.

The Gear train is used to give the correct ratio to the Quick change,enabling you to cut the desired TPI/MM Pitch and feed rate you desire.

If you have excessive noise coming from the Quick change box there maybe a problem inside it,normally the Quick change boxes are quite in opperation irrespective if they are Sealed or Total Loss as yours is.

The majority of Gear noise generally comes from the Gear train,as these are normally the only Gears that you are able to adjust clearances on.

Normally a noisy Gear train will indicate a lack of clearance between the gears.

On some Lathes with noisy Quick changes I have discovered the the Gears are damaged or the Bearing areas of where the Lay shafts run are worn.

A lot of the damage caused to the Quick change is the result of people not stopping the lathe before attempting to change Feeds etc.

Thanks Pipeclay.

I think in my case there is excessive wear in the lay shafts. I have had it apart when I replaced what bearings I could. It was when I had it apart that I actually understood where the oil was actually going when you put it in the lube holes. As a result I also realised that due to the design, you need to pump half an oil can into it for the oil to make it's way to ALL the internal holes that drip onto the gears and layshafts. It's difficult to explain but when you pump the oil into the hole, it actually fills an internal resevoir (which sits above the gears in a hidden lip below the headstock). This internal resevoir has various holes in the base that allow the oil to drip down. But like I said, unless the resevoir is full, not all the holes are fed. I estimate about 250mls is required...

Hence, using hydraulic oil that has no stickiness will drain away very quickly and end up on the coolant tray within 5 minutes.

Stupid system!

BTW, thanks for letting me know that this type of system is called total loss. Makes sense

I have always wondered why the US guys go on about the Grizzly gunsmith lathes when they have that type of gearbox. A lot of the 12 x 36 lathes sold in the US are the same.
I think the enclosed gearboxes are a lot better as you fill them with oil and forget about them, and you don't have to mop up the chip pan.

Anyway
Is there any way you could add a sheet metal base on your lathe to make it enclosed or at least enough oil in it for the gears to pick it up? If not would it be possible to make a slide in drip pan directly under it, and you maybe able to recycle some of it.

Dave

Originally Posted by Dave J

I have always wondered why the US guys go on about the Grizzly gunsmith lathes when they have that type of gearbox. A lot of the 12 x 36 lathes sold in the US are the same.
I think the enclosed gearboxes are a lot better as you fill them with oil and forget about them, and you don't have to mop up the chip pan.

Anyway
Is there any way you could add a sheet metal base on your lathe to make it enclosed or at least enough oil in it for the gears to pick it up? If not would it be possible to make a slide in drip pan directly under it, and you maybe able to recycle some of it.

Dave

Those ideas and several others have been bouncing around in my head for a while now. I have not done anything about it yet for two reasons. First, I'm still waiting for a really good idea to hit me in relation to it and second, I just have not had the time. One of the first things I might do is either re-bush the layshaft with a bronze bush or fit a sealed bearing at each end.

I'm actually toying with the idea of an external lubrication resevoir that feeds each individual oiling point via a constant drip system. The drip system will have a solenoid valve that opens when the motor is running. The devil would be in the detail as it would only need a small drip once every 1/2 hour of running time so the size of the orifice and the viscosity of the oil would need to be factored in...

Also I still have not finished kicking myself after realising that certain parts where as dry as a bone and not getting properly lubricated. I believe that this have cause premature wear on certain parts

Cheers,

Simon

G'Day Simon,
My previous lathe (10x 18 Herless) had the same norton box oiling arrangement as the one you describe, in my case it needed a rebuild (new shafts and bushes) after 20 years of light use, after the rebuild I cut the front aluminium plate about 100mm from the bottom and fitted it on pins which made it easily removable so that i could get to the gears & bushes with an oil can.
My current 12 x 36 has a different (but equally crappy) arrangement with the oil holes under a removable plate, the number of holes was totally inadequate as the gears at the input end and the tumbler gears received no lubrication at all, drilling & counter sinking extra holes cured this. Regarding the oil dripping from the bottom of the gearbox I leave a plastic take away food container under it (crude but effective),
Regards,
Martin