Thread: Varnamo EV-3 Shaper Rebuild

Hi Josh,
I would grind down the non driven end cap and add a bronze washer or thrust race if you have the space. Is there any way of pinning a bush inboard of the casting at this end so all the thrust is here? Otherwise you need to add a bearing somewhere in the driven end......
Cheers
Ew

Originally Posted by Ueee

Hi Josh,
I would grind down the non driven end cap and add a bronze washer or thrust race if you have the space. Is there any way of pinning a bush inboard of the casting at this end so all the thrust is here? Otherwise you need to add a bearing somewhere in the driven end......
Cheers
Ew

Thank Ewan,
If i grind down the cap and spacer piece there is space for a thrust bearing at the non driven end but no space for a bush to be pined. but you do give me an idea I could use some kind of acme lock nut arrangement with a trust bearing on the inside face of the casting. Hmmm... more thinking time required..

-Josh


oh. another one that occurs to me if I turn down the slip ring spring thingy I could fit a thrust bearing underneath the slip ring itself on the driven end, well maybe if it was less than 4.5mm thick that is.

Josh, just to clarify, by 'driven end' do you mean the handle end? (If the handle end is driven, what do you call the other end?)

It looks like there's plenty of good bearing area left on the shaft and housing to support the passive end. I would just make sure there are no high spots and move on. The alternative would be turn down the shaft and bore out the housing for a bush, which would need some kind of line boring setup. Doesn't look worth the hassle to me. I'm guessing there's an oil hole there that's introduced contaminants?

As for thrust, I'm wondering if there are parts missing from the passive end? Could be as simple as a bronze washer each side of the housing and a pair of lock nuts to set the clearance. The inside thrust washer would simply bear on the shoulder of the shaft and the outside one would go under the keyed collar, which is there to isolate the nut from rotational forces. I think that's how mine is set up. I'll have a look later. Anyway it looks simpler to tackle the thrust problem at that end than to mess with the calibrated end.

At the risk of stating the obvious, something is not right there.
On the Elliott the non-ratchet end (non-driven) is held against a thrust washer with a washer, nut and lock nut clamping up from the other side. Any slop and the screw just rocks back and forth on the ratchet (been there, done that).
On the ratchet end, the shaft goes straight through a bush - there is no axial constraint.
I'd be following Bryan's line of thought and taking off the high spots, perhaps re-making the bushes and checking the lub. However, you shouldn't need thrust washers/ bearings at both ends. Perhaps the last person to do a strip down didn't understand how things should go together?
A friend of mine recently gave me a bar of phosphor bronze he had lying around his shed (no lathe or mill - it was given to him) it's around 400mm long and 32mm diameter so if you need a bush or washer or two I can provide. It was being used as a drift would you believe...

Michael

It was being used as a drift would you believe..

Yes I would.

Originally Posted by pipeclay

It was being used as a drift would you believe..

Yes I would.

So would I, seeing as I have a number of lengths of bronze hollow core bar that I use in exactly this way when I need to. If I want to turn a bit into a bushing, big deal, a facing cut cleans up any marks and I always need to turn down the OD anyway.

PDW

Bryan,
Yes when I say driven end I'm meaning the end with the handle and the ratchet gear on. I guess the other end is "the other end"

It would be a little hassle to bore out the casting, but I expect that this shaper will be around for many many years to come, so it maybe worth while or it may not. I have not quite decided yet, I guess it depends a little on what I end up doing about the constraining the shaft so that wear is minimised or easily serviced.
The wear on the bore and shaft is offset to the oiler port which makes me think that some debris has come in from the outside of the casting where it has been spot faced for the "retaining/position bush (sorry I don't know what to call it yet)"


Michael,
I agree something does not seem right. So I have modelled up the relevant parts and provide them here as a 3D pdf. If you want to hide a component select it and then right click and go to Part Options -> Hide. to show again right click Part Options -> Show all.

The slip ring spring is pined to the shaft, so any tension on the other end will pull up on the slip ring plate :S which does not seem right to me, there should be at least a bronze washer there? I expect that it was left off when it was put back together? What do you guys reckon?


-Josh

Ok mine has a keyed thrust washer under the nuts on the outer end. Nothing on the inside. Must be something similar at the other end, I don't remember. I know those lock nuts can work loose and then my feed stops.

PS: I wish images would appear in the order I attached them!

Originally Posted by pipeclay

It was being used as a drift would you believe..

Yes I would.

Originally Posted by PDW

So would I, seeing as I have a number of lengths of bronze hollow core bar that I use in exactly this way when I need to. If I want to turn a bit into a bushing, big deal, a facing cut cleans up any marks and I always need to turn down the OD anyway.

PDW

Sorry - drift is the polite term - how about "lump of material you bash when a hammer won't reach" eg knocking loose bricks out of walls

Michael

Originally Posted by Bryan

Ok mine has a keyed thrust washer under the nuts on the outer end. Nothing on the inside. Must be something similar at the other end, I don't remember. I know those lock nuts can work loose and then my feed stops.

PS: I wish images would appear in the flocking order I attached them!

Thanks Bryan,

That is fairly similar to the Varnamo, But the trust washer is torn up a little, it looks as if someone has tried to twist it off with pair of stilsons, maybe they did not realised it was keyed. I might as well drop in a thrust bearing there, and turn a little cover for it.

-Josh

What, we have 3D pdfs now? Can't seem to read them on this dinosaur though.

I tried to get the ratchet end of mine apart quickly and failed, but got far enough to see what's going on, and it looks essentially similar to yours. I guess those faces have galled from lubrication failure or contamination. I'm sure that will be a simple matter for a man of your talents to rectify. If you decide to try the ball bearing (is that what you meant?) you may find the feed ratchet won't work as it needs some resistance.

Originally Posted by Bryan

What, we have 3D pdfs now? Can't seem to read them on this dinosaur though.

I tried to get the ratchet end of mine apart quickly and failed, but got far enough to see what's going on, and it looks essentially similar to yours. I guess those faces have galled from lubrication failure or contamination. I'm sure that will be a simple matter for a man of your talents to rectify. If you decide to try the ball bearing (is that what you meant?) you may find the feed ratchet won't work as it needs some resistance.

Bryan,
Yeah 3D pdf's are great.

Here is a cross section view for you
Varnamo EV-6 Full Detail.jpg

I had not thought about the ratchet needing a little resistance. hmmm.....

-Josh

To add to Bryans pics, here are pics of the Queens "other end" bearings. There is a lipped bush in the cast, lip on the inside for the collar to thrust against, and then the 2 bronze nuts. You can see the oil gallery has been extended to lube the thrust as well as the rotation. I don't think this is original, there is a tapered hole through the thread, no doubt there was just a bush pinned on and no adjustment to originally.
If you need some larger bronze than Michael has i have some that is 2"OD x 1 1/4"ID (or something like that) in LG2.

Bryan, you can re arange the pic order by dragging and dropping whilst in the manage attachments window.

Originally Posted by Ueee

To add to Bryans pics, here are pics of the Queens "other end" bearings. There is a lipped bush in the cast, lip on the inside for the collar to thrust against, and then the 2 bronze nuts. You can see the oil gallery has been extended to lube the thrust as well as the rotation. I don't think this is original, there is a tapered hole through the thread, no doubt there was just a bush pinned on and no adjustment to originally.
If you need some larger bronze than Michael has i have some that is 2"OD x 1 1/4"ID (or something like that) in LG2.

Bryan, you can re arange the pic order by dragging and dropping whilst in the manage attachments window.

Thanks for the offer of Bronze Ewan and Michael, I'll think at this stage I will just melt down some bronze I have here to make the bushings.

I have looked at the manual and there is no washer for the slip ring assembly (see attached)

Pages from Varnamo_Ev_Shaper_Manual.jpg

This will be easy to remedy. I'm going to put a cylindrical thrust bearing at the non-driven end, and I would also put one on the driven end as well but I can't find one with a 28mm ID so it will be a bronze washer machined to go under the slip ring so it is not steel on steel. I'll do a sketch...

PS the scraping is coming along well, its to the point where getting a clear blue is getting really annoying, and it is starting to lift the surface plate off its stand. :S

Now to start thinking about where and how the automatic oiler is going to get around the table.

-Josh