Thread: Varnamo Shaper

Ray, here's a couple of general links.

Metal Shaper FAQ

Shaper Book Page

I have several of those books saved but they're eluding me. In short, shaper tools need less clearance than lathe tools, because they don't feed during the cut. For steel, plenty of side rake helps. And you'll need a round nosed shear tool for finishing.

Pete, you can certainly get by without a shaper. Lots of people do. And if space is tight you're right to be dubious. I'm in the opposite position - I have a shaper and no mill. I'd like to have a mill just because I love machines, but for the few times I really need it, the cost can't be justified. My shaper cost me about $650. Probably a grand by the time I got it home. I did then spend a bit on it, but ongoing costs are virtually nil. You can't even buy a round column mill-drill for a grand, let alone tooling. There's not much you can't do on a shaper. About the only thing is pocketing. You need at least two open sides.

Bryan, yes I think I remember your shaper, quite a large one IIRC. Oh yes logically I have absolutely no use at all for a shaper, but they are just so cool to watch it's hard to resist.

Originally Posted by PDW

I think using a shaper to do internal splines & keyways is using the wrong tool for the job anyway.

PDW

Ok, I'll bite... seeing the bait dangling there was too much
I thought that a shaper was the only machine for inside keyways and inside gears.

Thanks all for the replies.

Stuart,
I'm doing the scotch brite and orbital sander trick on the flat surfaces around the table, so I'll take a few better pictures of the setup.

Dave,
Thanks for the tips on the table setup, I'm not in a hurry to remachine the table..
I'm not sure I've seen the swivel table set up on the Douglas, is it back together yet?


Phil,
I'll PM you my postal address, but I wouldn't like that to stop you from coming over for a visit.. you'd be most welcome.

Bryan,
Thanks for those links, I've started downloading some books, "The Shaping Machine" by Ian Bradley looks like a good starting point for some background reading. Beats reading swedish..

Pete,
I think you and I are on the same page, I don't NEED a shaper, I just WANTED one without any real logical thought processes to back it up. Ask me again in a few years and I'm willing to bet that the shaper will be getting plenty of work.

Regards
Ray

Hi Ray,
The Douglas is only a very basic set up, no degree marking or anything like that.

This one is from the for sale section, you can see the extended head bolt hanging out the front and the table, you undo this to get it to swivel. You can also see the alignment pin on the side at the lower back. There is a hole that has been reamed half/half between the table and saddle for setting it back strait again.

On shapers, the table can also be completely removed for jobs that need to be bolted directly to the saddle. Like a angle plate could be bolted directly to it for finishing.

Dave

Originally Posted by RayG

Ok, I'll bite... seeing the bait dangling there was too much
I thought that a shaper was the only machine for inside keyways and inside gears.

Phil,
I'll PM you my postal address, but I wouldn't like that to stop you from coming over for a visit.. you'd be most welcome.

Hi ray,
Shapers are actually the perfect machine for internal keys etc.

I might post the stick to you so you can start reading then pop in for a visit not long after. Thanks for the invite. Much appreciated.

Phil

Hi All,

Ok, now I'm confused, not for the first (or last) time either.. Dave's picture of the Douglass had me running back to the shed for another look... Thanks Dave.

Having replied to Stuart that the table doesn't swivel, now I partially understand how it works, there are three bolts at the back inside the table, that looks like you could remove the front support and swivel the table. Eagle eyed Stuart wins again..

Here are some pictures that might help..unravel the question.


Inside the table, taken from the front, that pin in the middle is the locking pin by the look of it.


The left hand side of the table, looking from the front




The right hand side, that V groove would be handy for holding shafts I imagine.

The only surface that's had a decent clean up so far is the top, which was Lanox and scotchbrite pads on a random orbital sander, it just scrubs the rust off the surface without removing any metal.

So over to Stuart, does it swivel?

Regards
Ray
PS. Thanks Phil, as you might have figured out, I'm on a pretty steep learning curve.

Hi Ray,
I'd bet a my shaper that yours swivels
At a guess there will be a circular Tee slot under the three large bolts and middle small bolt at the top is the alignment somehow.

Maybe PDW has a slotter?

Hi Bryan,
I think you can cut a pocket with a shaper but you'd need(?) to drill a hole each end.
Stuart

Hi Ray,
I would grab the engine crane and start working on taking the table off. This way you will be able to clean the surfaces and see exactly how it all works. If there are T slots behind their, they will probably have surface rust in them.

Dave

Changed my mind.
I still think it swivels but that small bolt I was talking about likely holds the leadsrew nut.

Stuart

Hi Stuart,

Your Invicta is safe, I'm not taking the bet..

Hi Dave,
Yep, going by the surface rust everywhere else, the table has to come off,
I've got a few days work up in NSW, so it won't happen until the weekend.

Still if it wasn't for Stuart's legendary keen eye for detail, and your picture I wouldn't have picked it.

Regards
Ray

PS Still wondering how PDW cuts internal keyways, gears and splines?

Originally Posted by RayG

Hi Stuart,

Your Invicta is safe, I'm not taking the bet..

Hi Dave,
Yep, going by the surface rust everywhere else, the table has to come off,
I've got a few days work up in NSW, so it won't happen until the weekend.

Still if it wasn't for Stuart's legendary keen eye for detail, and your picture I wouldn't have picked it.

Regards
Ray

PS Still wondering how PDW cuts internal keyways, gears and splines?

Stu got it, I have a slotter to keep my shaper company. Bought it years ago when I was building a scale model saw mill (approx 2/3 scale, 36" dia blade) and I needed to cut a ton of keyways in pulleys, sprockets, gears etc. Ever priced a keyway broach set that can do 1/2" wide keys for a 4" length of cut? I did. Hence the slotter.

You *can* do keys in a shaper but it's a PITA whereas it's a piece of cake with the slotter. No clapper box to lock up, no oddball tool to make and you can see what you're doing without having to stand behind or use a mirror. The table has a built-in rotary table with power feeds on both linear ways plus the RT. Probably the least used machine in my shop but indispensible for me.

Ray, my shaper is a Prema and I think its label mentions Varnarmo somewhere as well. Might be from the same place. The table on mine tilts sideways but I never have, don't want the hassle of realigning it. Sort of like offsetting your TS; you can and if you need to you will, but you know you're going to pay for it to get it true again.

Not sure if anyone else has mentioned it, but shapers are very powerful beasts. That ram will punch holes in anything behind it if its guards are removed, ribs etc included. It can rip things out of a vise and throw them a long way. It looks slow & safe but you can lose a finger or hand in an eyeblink if you're tempted to get in there to remove chips etc on the back stroke and mistime it. I use a lot slower speed than I could and I always use the shortest feasible stroke. I'm not really expert with a shaper so I don't get anywhere near its potential.

Pete, yeah, you're tight on space and machinery has to pay its way. Shapers are neat but you can live without one. They don't demand anywhere near the amount of money on tooling that a mill does, though. My old reference books talk about cutting T slots and the like using a shaper but I'd rather use a milling machine. My main use for the shaper is planing off castings, hot rolled steel and the like. I could get more out of it but I'm a bit spoilt for choice with mills, that and I don't yet have a really good shaper vise.

What I really want is a metal planer. One day...

PDW

Peter that's a sweet looking little slotter. What make is it?
Varnamo is a place in Sweden, formerly industrial heartland I think.

Hi Ray,

A few other things you'll need to make.
The crank handle is the only one you'd really "need"

Hi PDW,
Nice looking machine, can't see myself ever having the space for one though

Stuart