Thread: Vertical slides

I was at H&F in Dandenong yesterday.

They had vertical slide for approx $180 - was surprised at how cheap it was - might be worth checking to see if its the same as the horrible one you used to have.

You might be able to improve it with some TLC

Bill

Yep, that's the same as the one I had, on special from the 14th for $140. I found if you adjust the gib at the top to get zero movement, when you wind the table down to the bottom it's so loose the table wobbles all over the place. If I can't get a reasonably priced compound slide I may have to have a look at the Seig vertical slide, although the built in vice is very limiting and the price is substantially more.

Originally Posted by th62

Yep, that's the same as the one I had, on special from the 14th for $140. I found if you adjust the gib at the top to get zero movement, when you wind the table down to the bottom it's so loose the table wobbles all over the place. If I can't get a reasonably priced compound slide I may have to have a look at the Seig vertical slide, although the built in vice is very limiting and the price is substantially more.

This is why an Australian made Hercus vertical slide with vise, 30 years old but in as new mint condition, can sell for around the $600 mark. I have one of those.

Good alternatives if you can find them used are the American Palmgren vertical slides. But not cheap either. EBay is your friend, but the postage for such a heavy item may make the above Hercus look cheap.

If you have a lathe with T-sltted cross slide I can also recommend the genuine Austrian made EMCO vertical slides, but expensive and hard to find. And the reasonably priced and easily available Taiwanese clones are not good and need lots of tender loving care to become somewhat usable at all (I know because I had one, sold it years ago when I bought a mill instead).

Myford also used to make a plain and a sviweling vertical slide, not cheap. And there are also much cheaper but not so well made Taiwanese clones of these Myford slides.

There are several good vertical slides around. What I want to say is, as long as there is a demand for such slides, you will only get what you pay for. Chris

Before I bought my mill, I had plans to make a vertical slide from an angle plate and use my existing compound. By removing the compound, bolting on the angle plate and then mounting the compound back on the angle plate I could have managed a reasonable cheap setup. In the end I figured I would only get frustrated with such a limited setup and bought a small geared head mill.

Anyway, in hindsight if I had the option of buying a H&F (or similar) vertical slide or making my own, I would make my own. So far the ones I have seen seem very agricultural in quality and make my Chinese mill look like a Swiss masterpiece!

Simon

Well that is not good news.I too wanted s vertical slide and was eyeing off a Palmgren 250 for my 12 x 36 lathe. I

had no idea on what the postage may cost on such an item.

I take a compound slide vice is probably too horrible and light to consider a conversion? The ones I had a look at had the handles the wrong to sit to a lathe.I dont, fancy reaching around the back to wind the horizontal. Also plastic handles really bug me as they will not last.

Grahame

Vertical slides are crap. They lack rigidity, it's difficult to put on an accurate cut using the saddle for feed, if you use the compound then see comment re lack of rigidity & triple it.

BTDT 30+ years ago.

Buy a mill and save yourself a lot of aggravation, wasted money and frustration.

PDW

That was my first option to use the compound slide of my lathe, but the mods I’d have to make to fit a vice and the time it would take to set it up for milling turned me off a bit, that’s why I thought of a second compound. I don’t do a lot of milling, mostly light stuff like keyways, slotting, etc. I also thought of a small mill like H&F’s HM10 but I’ve been told they're only good for watchmaker size items (not my words).

Originally Posted by th62

That was my first option to use the compound slide of my lathe, but the mods I’d have to make to fit a vice and the time it would take to set it up for milling turned me off a bit, that’s why I thought of a second compound. I don’t do a lot of milling, mostly light stuff like keyways, slotting, etc. I also thought of a small mill like H&F’s HM10 but I’ve been told they're only good for watchmaker size items (not my words).

That's fair enough but it wouldn't take much of a mill to exceed the capacity of a vertical slide. I know cost wise it's not really comparing apples with apples but I guess if you compare a top quality vertical to a small Chinese mill then it's getting closer and I think the Chinese mill would still do far more. If space is a consideration then that's another issue.

Simon

Hi th You might want to look at Rob from SA. Neonexus I think is his handle. He turns out gears and all sorts of stuff with his horrible slide. He has some eye opening videos on youtube. Definitely one to learn from.......Phill

I always remember a reported exchange between a trade qualified plasterer and a home handyman about plastering and why the HH's efforts weren't as good as they wanted them to be. The Plasterer took a look at the trowel the HH was using and said "Look, I'd have trouble getting a good finish with this. You're an amateur. You need all the help you can get." The point here is that having good tools goes some way towards compensating for a lesser skill set.

While people have made miraculous things with vertical slides for the average user they have a tiny envelope, rely very much on the patience of the user and things can go pear shaped really quickly if there is backlash in the cross slide screws.

Each to their own, but with the availability of cheap mills I would agree a better option is a small mill (even second hand). At the end of the day it will have some resale value if you decide to go bigger. The alternative is to spend a good proportion of that on a quality vertical slide. The problems mentioned by '62 can be solved, but spending a day or so of labour just to tighten up something to a basic but usable standard seems like a poor deal to me as at the end of the day it is still a $180 vertical slide.

Michael

If you had to use a vertical slide, a slide that mounts on your compound is more versatile IMO than one that mounts directly to the cross slide. The first photo below shows a cross slide mounted Hercus slide, the other, an old 90 dollar Myford slide on the compound. Compound mounting provides more readily accurate infeed and angular infeed. To control the infeed using the Hercus slide I used the micrometer saddle stop.

Hercus Vertical Milling Slide 001 (Large).jpg Hercus Vertical Milling Slide 006 (Large).jpg

I probably used the Hercus slide 4 times and the Myford once. Then I bought a mill.

Bob.

> Vertical slides are crap.

In the old days people could barely afford a lathe for home. There was no money for a mill. Even if there was money, there often was no room for a mill. Milling attachments like vertical slides were very popular. Think about it, if you cannot have a separate mill, some sort of milling attachment is indispensable, even if you only want to build something simple like like a steam engine. Ant this is why back then, and unlike now, vertical slides were pretty well made. Back then they were a necessity, today the vertical slide is often (not always) just a short term replacement for the first mill that has to be as cheap as possible.

> They lack rigidity

A light hobbylathe lacks rigidity for milling. Not the vertical slide if it is well made. A typical light 9" lathe has a 3/4HP motor, but only the "milling rigidity" of a 1/8HP motor. That is why it makes you feel it lacks rigidity. Treat it like you would treat a 1/8HP standalone micromill, and the rigidity is adequate.

> it's difficult to put on an accurate cut using the saddle for feed

That is not my experience. For about 20 years, all I had at home was a lathe and no standalone mill. If you use any milling attachment on a lathe (vertical slide, or rear bed mounted milling column/head, or headstock mounted milling column/head, or toolpost mounted milling spindle) the first thing you do is to add a handwheel with graduated collar to the right end of the leadscrew. You use this handwheel, with closed half nuts, to advance the saddle. If all is well adjusted, there is no more backlash then if using the handwheel on a dedicated mill. And there is often a better "feeling" (aka tactile feedback) than on many mill tables. Plus you can use the lathe's automatic feed for free. You can use the saddle stop too to your advantage (and even fit it out with a dial indicator), and you can always quickly open the half nuts and use the apron handwheel to make quick moves, like to take a measurement (not unlike using the quill on a vertical mill).

> if you use the compound then see comment re lack of rigidity & triple it.

yes, that I can fully agree with (unless its a large lathe...)

> Buy a mill and save yourself a lot of aggravation, wasted money and frustration.

yes, maybe, probably... but not necessarily. If the op has the money and the space I agree, a separate SIEG minimill is more desirable. But the op may not have the money right now? Or the op may not be sure yet if metalworking is going to become his long term hobby? Or the op does only need to mill very small items? Or the op may already have a mill, but is looking to do something different with the lathe vertical slide, that is more conveniently done in a lathe than in a mill?


Well, the key downsides of milling in a vertical slide are:

- x is not exactly at 90 degrees to z, because the cross slide is always slightly offset to ensure the lathe faces concave. One always needs to be aware of this fact, there often are ways around the problem. But this is an important downside if doing precise work.

- the work enveloppe of a vertical slide in an 8 to 10" swing lathe is for most practical purposes about the volume of a cigarette pack. Yes the z axis is almost unlimited, but in xy directions a cigarette pack is about the maximum. To build things like say a Stuart 10 steam engine, that is perfectly adequate. But not much bigger.

- it is difficult to set up the workpiece vertically, it is difficult to watch the horizontal (edit) cutter as you can only look at it from the lathe's front and top. For the same reason, there is not much light reaching the cutting area.

- if the workpiece is heavy, it will feel hard to rise the table upwards with the top handwheel. And if not locked (or the top handwheel held with your hand), the vertical slide has a tendency, aided by cutting vibrations, to be slowly driven by the table/workpiece weight downwards.

Despite this, dedicated and talented people have turned out the most incredible projects with only a lathe and vertical slide. Chris

As usual Chris, an informative and beautifully written response.

Bob.

Originally Posted by Anorak Bob

If you had to use a vertical slide, a slide that mounts on your compound is more versatile IMO than one that mounts directly to the cross slide. The first photo below shows a cross slide mounted Hercus slide, the other, an old 90 dollar Myford slide on the compound. Compound mounting provides more readily accurate infeed and angular infeed. To control the infeed using the Hercus slide I used the micrometer saddle stop.

Hercus Vertical Milling Slide 001 (Large).jpg Hercus Vertical Milling Slide 006 (Large).jpg

I probably used the Hercus slide 4 times and the Myford once. Then I bought a mill.

Bob.

Hey Bob,

Does the purchase of the mill mean that you might consider selling one or both of those vertical slides ?

Bill