Thread: vice repair advice sought - cast iron

Originally Posted by nearnexus

Welding cast with a stick welder is quite easy, however you will not get a perfectly clean weld. It will have a burn edge on the weld which you can't eliminate.

Mig will be better.

The way that vice has been drilled into is really quite sickening. Who would do such a thing ?

Rob

Yikes the termites are bad in western Victoria!! shame shame shame

Originally Posted by desbromilow

I rang Dawn and the lass on the phone said it is made from "Super grade cast" - the same alloy as the unbreakable vices (the hammertone green ones)

I spoke to our metallugist yesterday and he reckons what they are calling "semi steel" will be SG Ductile cast iron (SG being "speroidal graphite") Apparently it increases the toughness of the cast iron. He also went in to a lot of detail as to the actual percentages of carbon etc and even how the graphite forms balls coated with iron etc etc.

bollie7

Good to see sustainability in action, reduce, reuse, recycle. I am not sure if you have a machine shop available to you but if you do there may be another way to fix your new find.

A possible way to repair the vice is to machine the worst section of the damaged area completely away and replace the "lost metal" with a plate screwed in place. If you use SHCS's from the underside, the threads will be in the new material which could be steel, not iron. High end toolmakers vices are often made from a number of components and are bolted together. It was also a common apprentice project when they actually taught you something in trade school. So if you have the time before you start, prepare a drawing or two as it may may help with the decisions you will be making,

The thicker sections in the base casting help with the ability of the vice to be rigid on tightening and to hold the moveable jaw in place when it is clamping. The flat faces top and bottom absorb any bearing loads and the keeper on the underside, more correctly the clearance of the keeper, stops the jaw from opening like a clam when you tighten it. Given you could put the right sized material back in place and fasten securely (this is where the drawing will help), it could be entirely practical to machine away the complete raised section back to the screw end of the vice and replace the thicker strip entirely. It would look very neat as well. Sundry holes away from the main damaged area could be devcon repaired, even auto putty for the smaller ones outside and you could paint over them after. They do not influence the function of the vice. Dawn was a good product and the fact it got this much hammering in the workshop and survived............

A laminated beam can have the same strength as a solid beam, sometimes it can be better in bending. I have had some incredible success with welding cast iron and some notable failures. I found the amount of oil remaining in the metal structure was one of the major issues when welding and a contributor to porosity in the deposited weld and bad adhesion / transition in the HAZ. If you do weld, really give it a good clean. Blind holes are nasty to get perfect in any material, be careful,

regards mgtoolmaker

Bought these two items today off Gumtree for $20 - which I thought wasn't too bad.


v1.jpgv2.jpg

The rats have been at the big one, but the little vice is quite good.

Need jaw plates as well, but that's Ok as I have a set under the bench - somewhere

So looks like I will be doing some cast welding and peening pretty soon as well.

Damn metal white ants are everywhere.

Rob





Sorry guys but the item is iron, admittedly ductile iron ,but still iron never the less.

It shouldn't take a genius to work out that that a 7018 maganese steel electrode it not really compatible with cast iron.
It is to do with the carbon content of the cast iron which will probably run maybe 4-7 %. The vice is not subject to compressive forces but tensile ones and while a LH rod might stick it up somewhat , there will will be root cracking,you betcha! and that stuck together condition won't last for long.

If you must weld use a nickel based rod, but remember the cost of the vice may be exceeded by the purchase price of the packet of nickel rods.
The vice can probably be replaced under $200. I have that exact model purchased 18 months back for about $125.The $400 model is the super quality jobbie .
You can pick this one as it's machined on 4 faces.

Brazing with a nickel bronze filler will be the most cost effective and does not take a heap of skill.

Just my opinion for what it is worth.

Grahame

Originally Posted by nearnexus

Bought these two items today off Gumtree for $20 - which I thought wasn't too bad.


v1.jpgv2.jpg

The rats have been at the big one, but the little vice is quite good.

Need jaw plates as well, but that's Ok as I have a set under the bench - somewhere

So looks like I will be doing some cast welding and peening pretty soon as well.

Damn metal white ants are everywhere.

Rob





Rats, White ants! Wish you would make up your damn mind, mutter mutter.

Dean

Further to this discussion, I decided to try my hand at welding up a drill press vice I have which was in similar condition to the one of the OP. See photo in my previous post.

But instead of using cast welding rods, I used a technique I saw on YouTube using ordinary GP welding rods and peening. No pre-heating.

I used some ancient 10 gauge GP rods at 130 amps and my air needle descaler as a peen while the weld was still red hot.

You can see the progress below.

w1.jpgw2.jpgw4.jpgw5.jpgw6.jpg

I didn't go to a lot of trouble on this, and there's a few air holes, but too bad. The overall job turned out OK.

Next I will make up some jaw plates to finish it off.

Rob

Originally Posted by nearnexus

Further to this discussion, I decided to try my hand at welding up a drill press vice I have which was in similar condition to the one of the OP. See photo in my previous post.

But instead of using cast welding rods, I used a technique I saw on YouTube using ordinary GP welding rods and peening. No pre-heating.

I used some ancient 10 gauge GP rods at 130 amps and my air needle descaler as a peen while the weld was still red hot.

You can see the progress below.

w1.jpgw2.jpgw4.jpgw5.jpgw6.jpg

I didn't go to a lot of trouble on this, and there's a few air holes, but too bad. The overall job turned out OK.

Next I will make up some jaw plates to finish it off.

Rob

I'm guessing you just ground it back with an angle grinder and it is only square by eye?

Originally Posted by DSEL74

I'm guessing you just ground it back with an angle grinder and it is only square by eye?

No, you're only partly right

I ground the worst off with the angle and air die grinder, then finished it off in the lathe with the side of a 16 mm slot mill to reface the slides level.

Rob

The rods I used were Murex (contex) 7014 equivalent 10 gauge.

These are all position, low penetration mild steel rods.

Contex is an old Murex line no longer available or listed.

Rob

You turned out a neat job Rob. Is it ready for another round of Metal Ants
Kryn

Originally Posted by KBs PensNmore

You turned out a neat job Rob. Is it ready for another round of Metal Ants
Kryn

Thanks Kryn. Looks a bit better than when I started

No metal ants in my shed. But must be plenty in other places.

I didn't bother trying to fill in the air holes. The problem is that you only know you've got them when you grind back.

Doing it this way preheating may help, but I didn't, so I had to keep moving to keep the temperature up. All the cleanup was after it cooled down.

Never done it this way before, but it seems to have bonded well, and very little edge burn like you get with cast rods. Being nodular cast iron (I presume) may also help.

Rob

Nearnexus, That has come up well, not quite a "silk purse" but very usable! The small vice looks quite different from a normal drill vice? any chance of a close up photo.
Graeme

Originally Posted by anglesmith

Nearnexus, That has come up well, not quite a "silk purse" but very usable! The small vice looks quite different from a normal drill vice? any chance of a close up photo.
Graeme

It was never going to be a silk purse

The small unit is a pipe vise.

I modified it a bit to make it do round and square stock.

v1.jpg

Not bad for $10.

Cheers

Rob