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Thread: Vices Size?

  1. #1
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    Default Vices Size?

    What is the maximum size vice recommended for a Sieg SX3L mill?
    Also what is the max weight?

    Ratty 05/2004 -05/07/2010 COOPER 01/08/1998-31/01/2012

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  3. #2
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    Default

    Have no idea but would think 30kgs for max table weight and maybe a 125mm vice.

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    It depends a lot what you want to do in your mill.

    I initially bought a 100mm Vertex sviwelling vise (Kurt model K copy) from Hare&Fobes for my X3. I used it probably only 10 or 20 times in 10 years. It is too big, with 11kg rather too heavy, and has only 65mm clamping range. I would not buy it again, not for this light mill anyway. Also despite my best efforts at improving it, it is noe exactly a precision vise. But it only costs some $120:
    kurt_K_clone.jpg
    http://www.machineryhouse.com.au/V104




    Next I bought a Toolmaker or grinding vise. It is the most used vise on the X3. This picture is from H&F, but the one I got is an old American one that was accurately reground all over by a toolmaker before he sold it. It is 3" 75mm) wide and I feel that is just the sweet size for this mill, it is an ideal fit:
    Toolaker_vise.jpg


    I later also bought a much smaller vise of the same deign, only 25mm wide, for smaller tasks. I can clamp that into the above 75mm vise at any angle with the help of a set of angle gauges.

    Then I have the Hercus lathe vertical slide with vise, that can swivel via an adaptor that can be mounted on the mill table. But what I regret most, many years ago I sold the low profile vise that I used a lot for milling in the EMCO lathe. That EMCO vise was very accurate and had a low profile and was extremely useful for small jobs, I should have kept it silly me. They are very expensive though, more than all the vises above together, so I got good money for it. That is how it looked like:
    emcovise1.jpg

    It is still available today for around $400, and there is a graduated swivelling base for it for around $200. Sometimes I am tempted...:

    emcovise2.JPG
    http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Emco-Mach...item4191e671de


    emcovise3.jpg
    http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Pivotante...item41973862d6


    That said: whenever practical, i actually prefer to clamp workpieces directly onto the table. I think that a clamping kit should be bought before a vise. I also use the rotatry table a lot (have a tiny 3" one and a 6" with stepper motor, workpieces in either the 3 or 4 jaw chuck. What I mean to say, do not overestimate the universality or usefulness of a vise, many jobs are done without.

  5. #4
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    Hi Mark, I use a 4" drill press vise, that has been slightly modified, the underside has been skimmed to make it parallel with the base of the sliding section, the face that bolts to the bed was faced also so that everything is parallel. Then the jaws were removed and everything vertical was faced so that everything was square. Especially the back and sides, so that it could be squared/clocked easily. One mistake I made was to face the area where the sliding jaw goes, it's now too low, ended up having to make a new one. I ended up buying a tilt vise from fleabay for $75 inc postage. I buy some stuff from Minitech in Qld, (minitech.com.au) reasonable prices I feel. No connections, just a satisfied customer.
    Just one of several he has listed. He has just about anything for the model engineer.


    4. 110027 Vice Swivel & Tilt 100mm/4in $350.00 $385.00
    Regards
    Kryn

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    I use the same 3" vice that cba shows, also use lots of direct hold downs with quite a few home made T nuts added.

    Also use a 6" rotary table with chuck quite a bit.

  7. #6
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    Thanks for all your replies.
    Excellent summary of your vices Chris.

    My reason for asking this question was because, the vice that came with the machine is massive compared to the mill.
    The vice is 100 mm but weighs 15 Kg.

    I will post a pic later showing it on the table.

    Ratty 05/2004 -05/07/2010 COOPER 01/08/1998-31/01/2012

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    I thought Vertex was a good brand?

    Ratty 05/2004 -05/07/2010 COOPER 01/08/1998-31/01/2012

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    Quote Originally Posted by wm460 View Post
    I thought Vertex was a good brand?
    It is pretty good but some of their stuff is better than others. Another 'get what you pay for' sort of thing. A couple of people compared their Anglock vices to Glacern and Kurt and concluded that they were competitive. A 4" version of one of those will cost $200 to $250...

    Michael

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    Quote Originally Posted by wm460 View Post
    I thought Vertex was a good brand?
    Its excellent value for the price. Let's say it is just too big and clumsy for what I do. In my case, H&F mixed up the swivel base and the vise (they come in two separate boxes, but he parts should be matched). The graduation index mark was 5mm off.

  11. #10
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    Here's the promised photo of the 15 kg vice that came with the mill.


    Ratty 05/2004 -05/07/2010 COOPER 01/08/1998-31/01/2012

  12. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by wm460 View Post
    Here's the promised photo of the 15 kg vice that came with the mill.


    Not much room left between the top of that vise and the collet.

    - The SX3 already has a tilting head. The tilting feature of that vise is therefore not much useful, it just reduces your distance between vice top and collet.

    - The swivel base of that vise does not appear to be removable. It reduces your distance between vise top and and collet even more. You do not need the swivel feature that often - and if you do not need it, you want to remove it in exchange for more headroom..

    - This vise is far too massive for that mill. It would suit a 4 times heavier mill. You can only take light cuts with an X3, a much lighter vise is all you need.

    If I was you, I would sell that vise and get something more appropriate. The lower down you can put the mill head, the more rigid your mill is and the deeper cuts you can take.

  13. #12
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    Hi Mark, a 4" drill press vise is more than adequate for the X2-3 mill, the only alteration is to make the bottom plate a bit longer so that it doesn't cant over.
    Kryn

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    One unused vice for sale soon.
    Dont know what Aussee was thinking when he put this size bonus vice in.

    Ratty 05/2004 -05/07/2010 COOPER 01/08/1998-31/01/2012

  15. #14
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    You could use that vice - I'd remove the bottom swivel for more head room but it could be used. The reason it was included was probably because the manufacturer offered it at a good price. It is a little large but not horribly so. Large items you will tend to clamp to your table anyway. The vice is there for smaller bits and from your photo they will fit.

    Before you rush out and get another vice, I'd suggest that you try that one and see how you like it. You may decide that you need one that width or smaller or bigger... You might also decide that it is easier to tilt the vice than to have to re-tram the head all the time. I have a couple of vices for my mill - an anglock for general work but a tilting one if I need to get fancy with something. That one may hold things firmly enough for you but you could decide that it has other characteristics that you may or may not like. You won't know until you try it.

    Michael

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